simonsi wrote:

I've no idea what the torque capacity of the transfer box is but surely it must be able to cope with the engine torque multiplied by the ratio in low range 1st??? Consequently there is probbaly lots of torque capacity spare whilst in high range?

Simon, that's a very good point - you don't work for Superchips or one of their agents do you?  Gone - 2008 TDV8, Stornoway Grey, ebony, zabrano trim, TV, Tasmods, mudflaps.

He said in a previous post that he didn't and the forum lie detector hasn't gone off, so I suppose he's telling the truth!  

2009 Outstanding Contribution Award - Joint Runner Up
2009 'Tech-Head Of The Year' Award - Runner Up

Like it here? Then Donate to RRSPORT!!

S There is a sector of the software called Torque Control which is what I think you are refering to.
Basically they reduce engine load at the shift point just to take the whip out of the crankshaft to get a smoother shift. On a petrol engine it retards the ignition timing quite a way then upshifts the tranamission. The transmission ECU tells the engine ECU when it going to shift, the engine ECU retards the spark, the transmission ECU takes up the shift, signals the engine ECU its done, and the engine ECU advances the spark back up the map. - Simple.
Its quite similar on a Diesel but obviously not on such a large scale because of the way it operates- the fuel and ignition perameters being less.
All this is brilliant invention until you get a slow moving valve in the transmissioon valve body because the timing retard can be felt, and the car holds back and barks at you for a split second.
At least when this happens you get a trouble code for a mechanical fault displayed because the transmission ECU measures the time delay between the shift point- losing the one gear and engaging the next.
 You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

rrsjo wrote:

simonsi wrote:

I've no idea what the torque capacity of the transfer box is but surely it must be able to cope with the engine torque multiplied by the ratio in low range 1st??? Consequently there is probbaly lots of torque capacity spare whilst in high range?

Simon, that's a very good point - you don't work for Superchips or one of their agents do you?

Nutty Nige wrote:

All this is brilliant invention until you get a slow moving valve in the transmissioon valve body because the timing retard can be felt, and the car holds back and barks at you for a split second.
At least when this happens you get a trouble code for a mechanical fault displayed because the transmission ECU measures the time delay between the shift point- losing the one gear and engaging the next.

Ah but the D2 box responds to such a tardy valve by requesting the gear shift earlier such that the actual mechanical shift time comes back within spec

Its response to sensing overtorque is a bit less impressive as it just drops into limp-home mode (until you cycle the ignition whereupon it decides everything is OK again ). On a damp day my S2-tuned D2 can occasionally be provoked into limp-home by this means but has still managed 177k miles, 117k with the Stage 2 tune on it so it definitely isn't pushing the torque limits of the drivetrain too far. Cheers

Simon

2007 2.7HSE 20" Wheels
2005 TDV6 D3 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes

Yes that is correct S
In fact I prefer that tranmission to the RRS and as for reliability well lets just watch this space as they say.
 You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Well I guess it all comes down to the old 'factor of safety' built into the design of the mechanical equipment. I guess with LR, their designs will have called for a pretty large margin.

In the end the decision to chip or not to chip seems to come down to whether it's worth the owner risking the possibly of causing a mechanical faillure. Time will tell in the end. Like Tasmod said, he knows of at least 40 TDV8's that have already been chipped without problems. Gone - 2008 TDV8, Stornoway Grey, ebony, zabrano trim, TV, Tasmods, mudflaps.

I doubt there will any major component failures with a throroughly developed engine re-map but I personally have seen problems on BMW's and the gearboxes when the torque increases are too high. Early 3.0D engines with the 5 speed manual gearbox used to destroy 5th gear 'teeth' when the torque increases were over 70Nm....not a huge safety margin

Having said that.....

It is very hard to claim with total confidence that a re-map or chip will not cause some sort of premature wear in the future and in anycase it probably wont show up until at least the 2 or 3rd owner of the vehicle and usually on mileages in excess of 80,000 miles.

I have spent the last 8 years working on all sorts of engine and gearboxes and as long as considerable care and development is undertaken then the majoroty of remaps will be safe and reliable. Chips with everything

Yes your dead right LR
On those early BM,s (3.0D) that you mention, Superchips had to turn down the torque on the manuals because they were destroying the clutch. It ripped the drive plate apart so they only went full torque on the Auto

 You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Nutty Nige wrote:

Yes your dead right LR
On those early BM,s (3.0D) that you mention, Superchips had to turn down the torque on the manuals because they were destroying the clutch. It ripped the drive plate apart so they only went full torque on the Auto

So not much careful development there then nor much understanding of the engineering of the drivetrain components perhaps....  Cheers

Simon

2007 2.7HSE 20" Wheels
2005 TDV6 D3 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes

I think time will tell how 'safe and reliable' egine remaps actually are....when I was actively involved in the development and quality control at Turbochip in the UK we never had any problems  Chips with everything

rrsjo wrote:

So it would appear that Superchips published dyno figure of 798Nm of torque for the TDV8 might be pushing things a little too far. It might also mean a lot of black smoke and soot from the exhaust as well!

I like these technical discussions.

Hmm!!!!  Gone - 2008 TDV8, Stornoway Grey, ebony, zabrano trim, TV, Tasmods, mudflaps.

At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice  Chips with everything

LRtuning wrote:

At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice

just my opinion only, however I dont agree - I personally wouldn't supply a product without knowing its been fully tested and that the full failure mechanisms had been determined - FMEA anyone?

Kaine,

In a perfect world you are right but I'm afraid it will never happen in the 're-map' world especially for Land Rover Chips with everything