Typical...maybe an idea to get an independent report yourself to show you could not do anything else.

Will help your case with the FOS - and if you win you could ask for the cost to be covered.

Good luck.

You could also ask for the crystal ball they use.
They must be looking into something like that to come up with the conclusion they are, how the hell do they know how long the vehicle was driven for after the faults showed up. 2005 Vesuvius 1st edition ( now sadly gone ).

Quote:

how the hell do they know how long the vehicle was driven for after the faults showed up.

Time/mileage stamps etc. can be stored with fault codes which may sometimes be able to give such an indication.

NB: I'm not in any way suggesting that the OP isn't telling the truth.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

RRSMike wrote:

Got a reply from Warranty Direct and they are standing by their initial conclusion. A total joke.

"Ultimately, I am confident, had the vehicle been stopped when the turbochargers first showed signs of failure, the consequential engine damage would have been avoided".

There were no signs of failure, it just happened there and then! This is like banging your head against a brick wall.

If the repairing garage can't get any date/time/mileage info from the car, let me know. Be more than happy to plug it in and get that Info for you

When the engine warning flashed up on the dash screen that would also store the mileage when it happened? If so it would show that it has not done 1 more mile since then.

I am not sure how else I could have known the turbos were on there way out. They are saying that they have deteriorated over a period of time, allowing oil to build up in the engine which ultimately caused the hydraulic lock and that I should have been aware of the fault earlier? There was no smoke from the exhausts and no unusual noises from the engine and the response when I put the foot down has always been superb with no noticeable loss of power. The only time I noticed the loss of power was when I pulled away from the lights at the time when it felt as though it was mis-firing and the engine warning came on and I pulled over and stopped.

The car is in Greenbank 4x4 in Aberdeen as that was where it broke down and I just got it taken to the nearest specialist in the area. The body is off, the engine is out and I am going to order a new one this week so I can hopefully get my car back and on the road sometime soon.

Then I will just have to wait on the ombudsman's decision on the situation and hope that they rule in my favour and I can recoup the money.

Lost for Words wrote:

Quote:

how the hell do they know how long the vehicle was driven for after the faults showed up.

Time/mileage stamps etc. can be stored with fault codes which may sometimes be able to give such an indication.

NB: I'm not in any way suggesting that the OP isn't telling the truth.

As I say, I'm not saying that's the case in this case. I suspect it's just a case of anything to get out of it...

It's things like this that make me so glad to be free from the concerns of a warranty. Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

From their final letter:

"It is your duty to mitigate your losses when attempting to pursue an insurance claim. Your policy handbook also reminds you of the following under the How to claim section: Prevent further damage - do not continue to drive if your vehicle is faulty. You should do all you can to protect your vehicle from further damage. We will not pay for repairs that are necessary because you have not looked after your vehicle properly.

For the sake of clarity, I will re-adress the key points made (from engineers report).

O1 - After inspection to above vehicle in its partly dismantled condition it is our opinion that the initial caue of failure would be general in service wear and deterioration of the turbochargers.

O2 - The left hand turbocharger has deteriorated and ultimately seized.

O3 - There was no general lack of lubrication noted to this engine and the presence od oil in the air cleaner would indicate that oil has been passing the turbocharger for some time.

O4 - Both turbochargers were oil fouled and deterioration of the inner sealing of the turbochargers has resulted in oil bypassing the seals and being blown through the exhaust and inlet side of the engine ultimately causing the vehicle to run up on its own oil and due to the distortion of the number 8 conrod possibly we cannot rule out a hydraulic lock having occurred particulary as no valve contact was noted to the piston crowns or any overthrow marking was noted.

O5 - The vehicle has been operated whilst in a defective condition.

O6 - A loss of power would have been experienced before the engine either ran away with itself or cut out.

C1 - We would conclude that the failure is deterioration related the initial cause of failure being the deterioration of the turbochargers.

C2 - Oil passage due to the turbocharger oil seal issues as a result of deterioration of the turbochargers has resulted in oil bypassing the seals resulting in oil being drawn into the induction system ultimately resulting in either the engine running away with itself partially before hydraulically locking resulting in the distortion to number 8 conrod as noted.

C3 - An element of drive on whilst in a failed state would be considered in this case based on the level of damage now apparent.

The above statements are conclusive, in suggesting that the initial failure to the turbochargers was caused by service wear and deterioration. However, the inspecting engineer believes the continual use of the vehicle has resulted in oil being drawn into the induction system, which has consequently caused catastrophic engine failure.

As advised above, the development of this condition would have been evident in a considerable loss of power.

Whilst I appreciate you dispute this decision on the basis you stopped the vehicle when the fault first became apparent, the develoment of the engine failure would have happened over a period of time, following the failure of the turbocharger seals.

The deterioration of the turbocharger seals would have resulted in a loss of power immediately however, the consequential damage now apparent to your vehicle's engine would not have been immediate.

Ultimately, I am confident, had the vehicle been stopped when the turbochargers first showed signs of failure, the consequential engine damage would have been avoided."

They are saying the turbos failing would have resulted in an immediate loss of power? Correct, that is what happened.

But the consequential damage would have happened over a period of time?

!!!so if this is the case any turbo'd car with say a whistle to it ,it should have the turbo replaced as they would say it was the start of the problem,but the warranty won't replace it till it fails. Are we all supposed to check air filters weekly for signs of oil?also check inter cooler pipes etc,etc.Some mechanic's say you will get some oil in the cooler pipes ,some say you shouldn't,does anybody know what to do to check the turbo's if your not a mechanic..The majority of us do our weekly checks,if there nothing flagging up on screen ,as I say what else can we do.Hasn't There have been cases on here where main dealers have replaced engines due to turbo failure,could this be used in some way to help your case

Warranty Direct - good luck.

I had to take the to court to get anything out of them, everything has a get of jail clause.

Perhaps Pete at Land Rover might ask his engineers how an owner is to check his turbo-chargers to avoid this situation.

If a car is serviced in-line with the JLR requirement and the warning light system is the only means an owner/driver has of controlling and managing the situation then surely one should be expected to be able to drive unconcerned. If drivers are to be held accountable in this way this means JLR's on-board monitoring systems are inadequate !!

Has there been an update here from Mike?

Also, how are we supposed to check our turbochargers are in good order?

S

Hi All,

As with any vehicle concern, I would have to advise that you visit a Land Rover approved retailer to investigate the concern further and diagnose this.

Depending on the nature of the concern, the turbo may be exhibiting unexpected noise, or alternatively you may have concerns with the mechanical operation which could result in performance concerns with your vehicle or warning lights displayed.

In order to investigate the operation of the turbo where no obvious concern is present or a fault code is found relating to the specific concern, further work would be involved to investigate.

Regular servicing in line with the Land Rover servicing schedule and oil changes would aid in the maintenance of the Turbo Chargers and the functioning of the engine.

I am unfortunately unable to comment on the policy and procedures of third party warranty companies or the decisions they have reached.

Many thanks,
Pete Please note although Land Rover will try to assist you with your issue, we are unable to provide any technical advice. This account is available between 0900 and 17:00 hours Monday – Friday. Outside of this time if you require assistance, please drop us a Private Message and we'll get back to you.

thanks for replying pete

So basically, if the vehicle has been serviced/maintained in line with manufacturers schedule, and you have proof of such, and, you were experiencing no loss of performance, and, or, funny noises etc etc then it's their word against yours that the vehicle was driven on in a faulty condition, leading to the failure of certain components.
Seeing as you are the owner, and therefore the regular driver of the vehicle, I think I know which one I would believe, should this go down any legal route.
You cannot expect, and as far as I know, it's not stated anywhere in any warranty details, that any owner of a vehicle should need to go to the extra expense of having specific diagnostics on certain components of the vehicle, just in case they may fail in the future sometime. 2005 Vesuvius 1st edition ( now sadly gone ).