Knew i should have bought that Porsche Cayenne! SVR 2018 in Santorini Black.

You could be right  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

There must be a major design flaw in the overall architecture of the sport or poor components. Its slightly offensive that these cost as much as they do and don't give back value for money. Do owners spend most of their time worrying that it's going to fail? This article has put me off buying one entirely

Part of the reason they're expensive is that they're built in Britain - relatively high (compared to elsewhere) wages, NI and legacy pension liabilities mean that the workforce are a big cost. ALthough Honda and NIssan manage it so that can't be the biggest issue.

Some of the costs are in the way the thing is built - a separate chassis and body adds to the cost obviously. Then there are the number of systems on the vehicles. The air suspension, for example, is more expensive than a standard coil spring system. The drivetrain is more complicated and robust and built by "name" brands e.g. ZF, Magna Steyr.

The whole rolling chassis of the car is robustly built and this will also add cost but should, of course, mean that the thing is bomb proof in light road use. This bit does confuse me because I would expect the vehicles are usually fairly lightly stressed in everyday use compared to the potential off road use they could handle. Perhaps off road use is less stressful than on road use, particularly if people drive them like tanks and put a lot of stress on components. The sheer weight of them will be detrimental on today's roads if you do make good use of their performance I suppose. Maybe too much soap gets in the electrics from all of the washing they're subjected too?

Of course, servicing / repair costs are so high becauue, being complicated vehicles means that they take time to repair and we all know how much main dealers charge per hour. Labour is a big fraction of a repair cost these days. You can get them serviced and repaired at indepedent garages for a fraction of the cost of a dealer service.

But I think the biggest single factor in why they're so expensive and yet not necessarily reliable is those two words on the bonnet - Range Rover. It's perceived as a premium brand and priced accordingly. LR are making good money, it seems from those words. Sadly, the brand isn't really premium in any way other than expectation.

The annoying thing is that the vehicles are excellent when they're working and a pleasure to drive both on and off road. But one does always have that little voice saying "what's going to break next and when?" 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

RRSTDV8 wrote:

But one does always have that little voice saying "what's going to break next and when?"

Little voice

Mine is screaming like Motörhead at full volume  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

Quote:

The annoying thing is that the vehicles are excellent when they're working and a pleasure to drive both on and off road. But one does always have that little voice saying "what's going to break next and when?"

Quote:

The whole rolling chassis of the car is robustly built and this will also add cost but should, of course, mean that the thing is bomb proof in light road use.

This reminded me of a post ages ago where a forum member was suffering the infamous suspension clunk and then when the dealer had it up on the ramps marvelling at how complex and great the set up was

Yes they might be able to withstand any environment and conditions I'd personally prefer if it worked reliably (and quietly) on the roads............  2011 Autobiography Santorini Black

Ah the suspension clunk - apparently its a characteristic on mine  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

RRSTDV8 wrote:

Part of the reason they're expensive is that they're built in Britain - relatively high (compared to elsewhere) wages, NI and legacy pension liabilities mean that the workforce are a big cost. ALthough Honda and NIssan manage it so that can't be the biggest issue.

Some of the costs are in the way the thing is built - a separate chassis and body adds to the cost obviously. Then there are the number of systems on the vehicles. The air suspension, for example, is more expensive than a standard coil spring system. The drivetrain is more complicated and robust and built by "name" brands e.g. ZF, Magna Steyr.

The whole rolling chassis of the car is robustly built and this will also add cost but should, of course, mean that the thing is bomb proof in light road use. This bit does confuse me because I would expect the vehicles are usually fairly lightly stressed in everyday use compared to the potential off road use they could handle. Perhaps off road use is less stressful than on road use, particularly if people drive them like tanks and put a lot of stress on components. The sheer weight of them will be detrimental on today's roads if you do make good use of their performance I suppose. Maybe too much soap gets in the electrics from all of the washing they're subjected too?

Of course, servicing / repair costs are so high becauue, being complicated vehicles means that they take time to repair and we all know how much main dealers charge per hour. Labour is a big fraction of a repair cost these days. You can get them serviced and repaired at indepedent garages for a fraction of the cost of a dealer service.

But I think the biggest single factor in why they're so expensive and yet not necessarily reliable is those two words on the bonnet - Range Rover. It's perceived as a premium brand and priced accordingly. LR are making good money, it seems from those words. Sadly, the brand isn't really premium in any way other than expectation.

The annoying thing is that the vehicles are excellent when they're working and a pleasure to drive both on and off road. But one does always have that little voice saying "what's going to break next and when?"

Well written, just what i was going to say

cost is derived 98% from the brand dynamic (another way of saying "you sell it for the highest price you can get away with")

For example, a Porsche Cayenne, has build cost in the region of e20,000.. but obviously sells for significantly more. I suspect a RRS is around this ball park too.



EDIT: I have never once worried that either of my RRS's will break down or fail, despite reading all the horror stories on here. I used to worry more about my Lotus's (Loti?) ============
2010 TDV8 HSE - ooo laa laaaaaaaaa
2007 TDV8 HSE - superb car and very reliable
============
2012 - dearly departed, sadly missed.. to return in late 2013 with a new TDV8!

Having owned 3 Discoveries previously I wouldn't dream of keeping hold of any Land Rover product once it was out of warranty.

When the gearbox dropped out of my TD5 Disco 3 months after the Land Rover warranty ran out I was told by LR customer non - service that it was due to my driving technique! I ended up writing to the CEO of LR at the time, who in reply was very dismissive of my complaint.

I have had an 8 year break in Land Rover ownership before buying my RRS, and to be fair I think that it is an excellent car to own and drive. Is it worth the money...........probably not in the long run with depreciation, but i do get a kick out of driving it!

However there is NO WAY on earth that I will be keeping it after the 2.5/3 year mark, as it appears that this is the point when everything starts going seriously wrong.

Will I buy another RRS.........maybe. My short (since march 2012) time of ownership it has provided me with a great deal of pleasure. I'll have to see what is available in 2 years time.

Jim

I kept my wife's FL1 to 5 year old without a problem - so thought I would keep my RRS this time just the same

Having had FL1's, FL2's and Disco 2's without problems I was lulled into a false sense of security - that was up to it being serviced last month of course

Now 2.5 year old and not been able to drive it anywhere for 2 weeks due to faults and 4 weeks in garage - I need my head examining  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

I tend to disagree strongly with most of these comments actually and probably the which survey too!

I can believe the majority of people on a forum, especially single make as more likely to voice an opinion or come on to complain...and the which survey people as more likely to be wingers and the people that will complain.

I have more examples of BMW and porsches owned by close friends failing than Land Rovers (Gearboxes, engines, transmission, ECU's all minor stuff!).

But im also realistic that ALL cars have there faults. A failing of Land Rover is that the other makes tend to have good dealers so people don't get disenfranchised.

I have had multiple land rover products, personally, for 13 or so years and for the majority of both my wife and my lives. ALL models, and nearly exposure to ALL model years.

Like I say all cars have faults - the worse was the VW we had. To be honest Ford wasn't great, but then its a don't care about car.

I know of someone with a honda who has had 3 replacements with faults. Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

@mse
Whilst I take your point that other makes have problems, many of them don't cost £50-70k. I wouldn't be surprised to spend £15k on a Ford and have problems. Spend 3 times that and get as many if not more problems doesn't seem reasonable. In my opinion.

I had the gearbox lunch itself in my Mk4 Golf about 6k miles out of warranty. The garage talked to VW who agreed to cover about 30% of the cost of a new 'box. They didn't have to, of course, but it made me feel a little better about the cost of the new gearbox. So far, I haven't had too bad an experience with the warranty work required on my RRS because the dealer has been reasonably good. So far. The warranty refused to fix the non-heating rear window though (claiming an electrical fault in the wondow is a "glass fault" and thus not covered!), which is annoying, but not the dealer's fault.

I think you're right about the attitude of the garages having a big impact on our impressions of the overall quality of the brand. When one hears of a so-called premuin brand treating customers (often repeat customers it has be noted) so poorly, one wonders how they expect to secure a long term future for the company. Perhaps they just believe their own hype or, more worryingly, they are looking overseas at the large markets and not caring about the relaitvely small market in the UK. More worried about selling 100,000 vehicles in China than keeping 10,000 vehicles owners in the UK happy.

Looking at muddywheel's story one sees a company who frankly doesn't give two hoots for the customer. And that is worrying and insulting. Will we all keep buying LR vehicles? Not sure I would if I got treated like that. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

First point i would make on markets - did you know that LR UK is actually land rovers biggest market still...i was shocked when i was told that.

I would tend to disagree - remember RRS and FFRR are expensive but the majority are between £15-40k the sort of price you find most cars in

The 2 examples of BMW and Porches were of their premium models.

I think you spend £15k on a ford you should equally not expect problems - one persons £15k is another's £100k.

Lets face it no company (note not charity) wants to underwrite any and every fault etc, if they dont have to pay the wont, equally with dealers sometimes the dealer can do more and just blames LR. I bet there was scope in your glass example

One dealer once tried it on me (in Scotland) until i made 1 phone call and hooked them up so to speak - funny the defender was fixed next day! with a so call unknown fault warranty didnt recognise.

My point is LR is not a bad company and they do do the bit...there are certainly a lot lot worse. Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

JLR were a good company or I wouldnt have bought 8 vehicles off them in the last 12 years

Over the last 2 years I have seen an unprecedented hike in prices with a noticeable drop in customer service, poor quality control, reluctance to do warranty repairs, shortage of courtesy cars and parts

I agree the uk market has shrunk and customers like me that kept the wolf from the door during the lean years don't matter now when they have India and china clamouring for their stock

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18250315

Quote:

...the group now exports 80% of its production...

I was a land rover nerd but I am growing up and looks like I will spend my hard earned cash elsewhere  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!