Thanks - and I’m sure they sort it for you… I did a lot more research on the SOTA issue after you raised it and apparently the the Ghost can kick in (doing its job) when the ECU communicates without the PIN to OTA update and prevents it. This is reported on BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audio and other JLR forums. The answer seems to be to disable (valet/service mode) when receiving updates but the SOTA come in batched with little or no notification so thinking that would be nigh on impossible unless done like you at dealer.

JDPRRSUK wrote:

Thanks MikeG very interesting read. I think the way thieves are trying to get round the UWB is to physically cut into the CAN via a hole in the rear bumper and tapping into the wiring to open doors and ignition?

Having said that - not sure I would want my car if it had had holes cut into it and the wiring messed with!

On the basis of previous post and concerns about SOTA updates and warranty I have now cancelled my Ghost II. 🫣

Hi,

I watched the engineer fit my GHOST, there is NO WAY I would want it “regularly” removed and re-fitted.

UWB will NOT prevent the “cutting a hole in the boot” thefts as they are a direct physical attack to the CAN BUS and even get round Secure Tracker Pro as the system see it as an “authorised start” and does NOT report it to the LR security centre.

SOTA updates over the last 2 1/2 yrs on SWMBO’s Defender 90 has always given us an option to manually trigger the update, I see no issue with putting my GHOST into service mode to trigger a SOTA update.

Better that than the car disappearing!

Has any one asked Autowatch Technical about this, or just relied on forum chat? They were very good with me when I was researching fitting the GHOST before the car actually arrived.

Scrumps
Chartered Electronics and communications engineer. Somerset - Where the apples do grow and the cider do flow!
2021 Defender 90 D250 HSE in Tasman with white roof.
24MY D300 AB - Verasine Blue - 😀
19MY SDV6 AB - Byron Blue - Gone
17MY D5 SDV6 HSE - Firenze Red - Gone
16MY SDV6 AB -Aruba Silver - Gone
13.5MY SDV6 "HSE Black" - Baltic Blue - Gone
10MY TDV8 HSE Galway Green - Gone
14MY D4 HSE in Scotia Grey - Gone
05 TD5 D90 CSW in Cairns Blue

I checked with Autowatch technical directly to try and get a definitive answer on this… this was the reply:

“we have never had any trouble with OTA upgrades before. On most cars it will ask for approval to do the upgrade, it is possible at that point to put the Ghost into service mode. I do not believe this is needed as the Ghost only immobilises on attempted start or gear selection, this should never happen during OTA updates.”

So looks like this issue is not relevant but it is posted as such by real users on BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc forums.. probably installation errors

 Somerset - Where the apples do grow and the cider do flow!
2021 Defender 90 D250 HSE in Tasman with white roof.
24MY D300 AB - Verasine Blue - 😀
19MY SDV6 AB - Byron Blue - Gone
17MY D5 SDV6 HSE - Firenze Red - Gone
16MY SDV6 AB -Aruba Silver - Gone
13.5MY SDV6 "HSE Black" - Baltic Blue - Gone
10MY TDV8 HSE Galway Green - Gone
14MY D4 HSE in Scotia Grey - Gone
05 TD5 D90 CSW in Cairns Blue

Hi,

BMW, VW, Mercedes, Audi…..all German, all rely on Bosch for onboard electronics?

Asking for a friend!

Scrumps Somerset - Where the apples do grow and the cider do flow!
2021 Defender 90 D250 HSE in Tasman with white roof.
24MY D300 AB - Verasine Blue - 😀
19MY SDV6 AB - Byron Blue - Gone
17MY D5 SDV6 HSE - Firenze Red - Gone
16MY SDV6 AB -Aruba Silver - Gone
13.5MY SDV6 "HSE Black" - Baltic Blue - Gone
10MY TDV8 HSE Galway Green - Gone
14MY D4 HSE in Scotia Grey - Gone
05 TD5 D90 CSW in Cairns Blue

I have now looked at all this further and agree that direct access to the CAN bus through a hole cut in the bodywork almost certainly allows a “legitimate” drive away. (There is the possibility that JLR’s software can identify specific types of unsupported CAN bus nodes but there is no public information I can find about that.)

Thinking about it further this means that in the event of cut hole attack if you don’t have a CAN bus immobiliser, you have a large insurance claim and no car to drive until the claim is sorted.

If you do have a CANBUS immobiliser in the event of cut hole attack, you also have a large insurance claim and no car to drive until the claim is sorted.

I can’t see how the expenditure of £500 has made me better off, never mind the possible issue of OTA updates.

I would genuinely be interested to hear if there is a cogent reason to fit Ghost to an L461 as no one seems able to argue that UWB doesn’t fix the primary problem of the relay attack. L461 P460e AB

Hi Mike JG,

From my research prior to buying an GHOST, and discussions with relevant engineers, the “cut a hole” attack allows a CANBUS attack on the ECU which allows for access and an engine start.

GHOST, when correctly fitted and configured, affects access to the BCU and gearbox control.

The engineer who fitted my GHOST is the lead engineer and QA engineer for Trackershop-UK and covers London and the western Home Counties. During discussions he told me that some of his previous fits had been attacked via the hole in the boot but were unable to move the vehicle due to the GHOST fit.

Yes, it leaves the owner with a repair bill, but at least they still have a car to repair!!!

Just to add - when GHOST is fitted, it is benign. Part of the fit is to configure it for the 150+ vehicles it is compatible with. Once configured (by a Bluetooth laptop) a “programming link” is physically cut so the unit cannot be “hacked”. There is a method of accessing the unit if you lose or forget the PIN but that is using a code specific to each fit, supplied as part of the document pack with GHOST.

I’m happy that UWB, secure tracker pro and GHOST has my Sport as secure “as is reasonably practicable”.

Scrumps Somerset - Where the apples do grow and the cider do flow!
2021 Defender 90 D250 HSE in Tasman with white roof.
24MY D300 AB - Verasine Blue - 😀
19MY SDV6 AB - Byron Blue - Gone
17MY D5 SDV6 HSE - Firenze Red - Gone
16MY SDV6 AB -Aruba Silver - Gone
13.5MY SDV6 "HSE Black" - Baltic Blue - Gone
10MY TDV8 HSE Galway Green - Gone
14MY D4 HSE in Scotia Grey - Gone
05 TD5 D90 CSW in Cairns Blue