I know this is an old thread but is this issue isolated to euro6 diesels or all LR diesels in general? I dont do a massive amount of miles if im honest per year and walk to work but when I do go out for a drive or go somewhere it will be for a while and woud suspect the engine would get warm enough if I was to flip it into manual mode and hold the gears a little bit more surely it would get warm enough to clear out the filter (RRS sdv6 model)

Does the filter naturally clean itself if the engine is running warm through use generally or does it require a burn at certain points, I'm assuming that the auto regen is the ECU trying to help by trying to increase the temp using extra fuel hence where the problems are occurring and possibly that depending on what time the regen started it might not have a chance to finish if the journey ends to soon (I guess you would never no this either) Im guessing if a regen was initiated and didnt run or complete it would attempt another one which again could compound the problem if it was during another shot trip?

It seems as if finding a tame local indy that can perform an oild and filter change using the same oil and filter is probably the best bet, ive always done this on my previous cars anyway as the cost of oil isnt too bad, I didnt on my last RRS SC and a Merc AMG CLK55 granted both were petrol but also very expensive engines! If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

The regen is started automatically when the back pressure in the filter reaches a certain level. Extra fuel is then added to increase the temperature of the exhaust gas in the filter to burn off the particulates. So long as the regen cycle is completed, there's no problem. Those doing short journeys seems to be at the greatest risk as the system will try to do regens more often which increases oil dilution risk.

In the 50k miles I've done in my 2012 SDV6, it's never shown any messages or lowered the service interval. I tend to do good runs at a time with some short journeys thrown in but the short stuff is between longer runs so it seems to be happy. A run at motorway speeds for 20-30 minutes will certainly be enough to allow the regen to be completed if you're concerned.

From the workshop manual:

Quote:

DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF)
Two processes are used to regenerate the DPF; passive and active.

Passive Regeneration

Passive regeneration requires no special engine management intervention and occurs during normal engine
operation. The passive regeneration involves a slow conversion of the particulate matter deposited in the DPF into
carbon dioxide. This process occurs when the DPF temperature exceeds 250°C (482°F) and is a continuous process
when the vehicle is being driven at higher engine loads and speeds.

During passive regeneration, only a portion of the particulate matter is converted into carbon dioxide. This is
because the chemical reaction, which utilises nitrogen dioxide, is slower than the rate of engine production of
particulate matter and is effective from 250°C (482°F).

Above 580°C the conversion efficiency of the particulates into carbon dioxide rapidly increases. These temperatures
are generally only be achieved using the active regeneration process.

Active Regeneration

Active regeneration starts when the particulate loading of the DPF reaches a threshold as monitored or determined
by the DPF control software. The threshold calculation is based on driving style, distance travelled and back pressure
signals from the differential pressure sensor.

Active regeneration generally occurs every 250 miles (400 km) although this is dependant on how the vehicle is
driven. For example, if the vehicle is driven at low loads in urban traffic regularly, active regeneration will occur more
often. This is due to the rapid build-up of particulates in the DPF than if the vehicle is driven at high speeds when
passive regeneration will have occurred.
The DPF software incorporates a mileage trigger which is used as back-up for active regeneration. If active
regeneration has not been initiated by a back pressure signal from the differential pressure sensor, regeneration is
requested based on distance travelled.

Active regeneration of the DPF is commenced when the temperature of the DPF is increased to the combustion
temperature of the particles. The DPF temperature is raised by increasing the exhaust gas temperature. This is
achieved by introducing post-injection of fuel after the pilot and main fuel injections have occurred.
It is determined by the DPF software monitoring the signals from the two DPF temperature sensors to establish the
temperature of the DPF. Depending on the DPF temperature, the DPF software requests the ECM (engine control
module) to perform either one or two post-injections of fuel:
The first post-injection of fuel retards combustion inside the cylinder which increases the temperature of the
exhaust gas.
The second post-injection of fuel is injected late in the power stroke cycle. The fuel partly combusts in the
cylinder, but some unburnt fuel also passes into the exhaust where it creates an exothermic event within the
catalytic converter, further increasing the temperature of the DPF.

The active regeneration process takes up to 20 minutes to complete. The first phase increases the DPF temperature
to 500°C (932°F). The second phase further increases the DPF temperature to 600°C (1112°F) which is the
optimum temperature for particle combustion. This temperature is then maintained for 15-20 minutes to ensure
complete oxidation of the particles within the DPF. The oxidation process converts the carbon particles to carbon
dioxide.

The active regeneration temperature of the DPF is closely monitored by the DPF software to maintain a target
temperature of 600°C (1112°F) at the DPF inlet. The temperature control ensures that the temperatures do not
exceed the operational limits of the turbocharger and the catalytic converter. The turbocharger inlet temperature
must not exceed 830°C (1526°F) and the catalytic converter brick temperature must not exceed 800°C (1472°F) and
the exit temperature must remain below 875°C (1382°F).

During the active regeneration process the following ECM controlled events occur:
The turbocharger is maintained in the fully open position. This minimizes heat transmission from the exhaust
gas to the turbocharger and reduces the rate of exhaust gas flow allowing optimum heating of the DPF. If the
driver demands an increase in engine torque, the turbocharger will respond by closing the vanes as
necessary.

The throttle is closed as this assists in increasing the exhaust gas temperature and reduces the rate of
exhaust gas flow which has the effect of reducing the time for the DPF to reach the optimum temperature.
The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve is closed. The use of EGR decreases the exhaust gas temperature
and therefore prevents the optimum DPF temperature being achieved.

If, due to vehicle usage and/or driving style, the active regeneration process cannot take place or is unable to
regenerate the DPF, the dealer can force regenerate the DPF. This is achieved by either driving the vehicle until the
engine is at its normal operating temperature and then driving for a further 20 minutes at speeds of not less than 30
mph (48 km/h).

Cheers RRSTDV8 thats sound pretty much what my plan was too, after reading some of the posts I got a little bit panicky! Ive never had a diesel always sporty petrols so all a bit weird to me Im just used to jumping in letting it warm up and then planting my foot!

Is this situation remedied by the more prem diesel do you think? Cant hurt to stick a half tank in every other!

Im guessing the filter doesnt fill up if the car is driven at higher speeds of gets the chance to get properly hot as it will probably burn the soot away naturally without the ecu assisted regen

It seems most are referring to my15 my16 models so wasnt sure if it was part of the Euro 6 emissions where maybe euro 5 specs it was not so much of a problem

Does having a remap help with this issue or add to it, if anyone knows that would be handy too! If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

pjbracer1 wrote:

perform an oil and filter change using the same oil and filter is probably the best bet, !

No.1. think you need to update your profile

If your going to do an oil and filter change, your best putting new in not using the old no point doing it otherwise

DPF issues affect All diesel engines (not just LR) to a more or less degree as you have said regens and oil dilution in the oil so fresh oil is best and a good long run now and again to let the DPF do its think
You need to then reset the oil counter when you have changed the oil
(model dependant if you can do this yourself, IID type tool or Indep visit required )

 Porsche Cayenne 2022
gone Porsche Cayenne 2020
gone Corris Grey HSE Dynamic 2016
gone Ipanema HSE lux 2010
gone Rimini HSE 2005
!!

yeah that was a nick name the old man had for me when I was a nipper! Used to love Golf Gti 16V's! Now its little more sit behind the wheel moaning about the idiots on the road with the occasional made moment (i generally save that for when im in Vegas or Miami its so cheap to rent a Jag F Type or Porker for a bit of fun).

Yeah the oil change would be new oil new filter just in case it was contaminated or in this case now diluted.

I have the IID tool does that give the details of how many regens have been performed in between services? as that would be handy to know as Im sure a smart cookie (or a service tech) could work out approx how much dilution is created from a regen and also failed regen although I suspect failed or not fully completed ones are not logged.

Anyone got any idea on how much oil is needed for the sdv6? I cant see that its worth getting LR to perform the oil change unless they give a courtesy car to play with and its fairly priced but I cant see that, so thought id get an indy to do an oil change and then let LR do the main services (Ill keep history for both) If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

Use a decent indy for all work. Avoid LR dealers. That's the best advice anyone can give.  2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Yep agreed I think I might just get the next one at the LR as they are now offering fixed prices for older models and the last one was the 80K service (carried out at 35K) so the next one is £395 that said Im not sure if that is inc vat and including parts as it doesnt say on the site!

I did out of interest look for a service plan but they seem to charge more for 3 services than it would cost if I just took it in each your for an interim and then one major (major being £545)

But I have sent them an email on the cost of an oil and filter change just to see how much they want and asked about the oil dilution issue so Ill see if I get anything back! (I wont hold my breath though!) If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

I would bet that they'll also find "essential work" required elsewhere such as brakes for which they charge a king's ransom. Standard main dealer tactics. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Yeah I think that is their sales tactic!

https://www.inchcape.co.uk/land-rover/serv...servicing/

Although Im not sure if the prices are too bad my Indy did the brakes on my SC a few times (she was a heavy lump!) and he was about the same price for front and rear discs and pads as they are for either front or back! Im not sure how they can every justify the prices, they would get more get more repeat punters to up sell to if they were priced sensibly! Its only really for the full history online now, but I dont think when it comes to sell time on older cars that you will ever get the money back once it goes past a certain age and alot of the time dealers just fit things rather than know what the problem is so it can get expensive unless it warranty and there is the illusion that if it been serviced at main dealers all its life then further down the line they might be more willing to foot some of the bill on something major as good will If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

Its only really for the full history online now

Indies can put the service data on line.

The guy i used for the SC was very good but tech wasnt his thing so it was paperwork only which isnt an issue to be fair, it would be handy if they could update the LR OSH portal if they registered but knowing LR they would want that to keep the riff raff out so to speak If a jobs worth doing, get a someone who knows what they are doing to do it!

RRS Autobiography Indus
RR P38 HSE V8
RRS Supercharged Santorini
AMG CLK Rear Tyre Shredder

somewhat related, this is an oil analysis on an SCV8 after 10K miles:

Quote:

I was interested in tracking the oil in the RRS due to running the AP velocity tune and pulley along with the recommended extended oil change intervals. I normally aim to change the oil in the 7-8k miles range but stretched it to 10k this time before changing the oil and sending off the sample.

The results came back today with really good numbers for 10k. Low numbers on all the wear metals and fuel dilution with a high TBN showing there was plenty of additives still in it. With these numbers I’m confident 10k-12k miles is fine on these motors, Especaily since this is running at 650 hp with plenty of pulls. I’d have to see the numbers again at 12k+ to see if I’d stretch it to the 16k I’ve seen recommended.

The high titanium is what makes the Castrol Professional Edge different and more expensive then most oils, incase you’ve wondered why it is so pricey.

 --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
2015 Range Rover Sport Supercharged V8 HSE Dynamic



Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9
Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

Mine has been showing as 0 miles until next oil change since end of March (that's at 3 1/2 years old, serviced at around 35,000 miles in September 2019). I had mine booked in to main dealer yesterday with around 40,000 on the clock. They said since it was 3 months (25% time) until next service they could do a service on the service pack. And I got it resolved that way.
This suits me fine since it means I get 4th service done now, and chances are (especially with lockdown minimizing mileage) that I should be able to actually get my 5th service done before 50,000 miles.
Definitely worth considering for anyone is a similar situation.

For reference...
1st Service done about 1yr/10k miles - car was largely sat unused except for longish journeys at weekends
Early service indicator reset after 7 months/7k miles from last service (apparently oil dulation was ok)
2nd service done at 2yr/12k miles - car doing many very short journeys (2-10 mniles) with some longish journeys (200 miles)
Early service indicator reset with oil change after 6 months/5k miles (under warranty/goodwill)
3rd service done at 3yr/35k niles - car doing short journeys (~2-10 miles)
Early service indicator after 6 months/5k miles from last service - though no action taken because of lockdown so car sat largely unused until...
4th service done at 3yr 9 months/40k niles - car doing shortish journeys (10 miles)
The car will now switch from doing 10 mile journeys to weekly 30 miles journeys/little usage in between. We shall see how well this improves things. I will update accordingly...!

I hope my experience will be useful to you.

I bought a new RRS in 2016 (MY16.5).
Very few urban roads and only quite long journeys (30/40Km) and a mean of 2.000Km per month.
I was not able to have more than 7.000 km between two oil changes apart from the initial one which took place after 12.000Km.
After 45 months, 88.000Km and 9 or 10 services (I lost the exact count, I should check the invoices), this March, I bought a BMW.

This is because for LR (not the dealer, I wrote to LR directly, after dealer starts short gasping) this is the normal behavior of the car.

Obviously this is my only personal experience and it can't be considered the rule. 2020 BMW X5 xDrive 30d
2016 RRS TDV6 HSE
2014 Freelander HSE Lux

Looks like im possibly about to be hit by the oil dilution issue, service required came up last night with no warning.

Last service was 7000 miles back, spoke to the dealer and they stated it could need an oil and filter change as suffering from dilution but will confirm when they see it. they expected the normal annual service to be around october.