timhum wrote:

Please Tim stop keep banging on about the crankshaft issue. it involved a short run of cars and is covered by warranty given that the car was supplied and serviced by LR. I have the latter confirmed by my LR dealer.

Tim in Scotland wrote:

I would love to have been a fly on the office wall at JLR’s Ivory Towers when they were discussing these changes at JLR, I bet it didn’t go something like this but I wouldn’t surprised at all if it did.........

MD - Gentlemen we have a problem - regular customers are abandoning the brands, new customers are being put off buying because of what they read on the internet and on social media. There are loads of unwanted built cars waiting for customers on dealership forecourts and the dealers are drowning under used cars with Diesel engines that migh snap the crankshaft. We HAVE to do something about about dropping sales, large numbers of rejected vehicles and lots of warranty repairs because our QC system is failing. I need some help to fix the issues......

Manager 1 Sir: Let’s change the specs of the cars, we could make what was standard equipment into optional and charge more
and reduce the colors available as standard.

Manager 2: Oh I have another suggestion let’s hike the prices overall, for options, paints, accessories and the completed cars - that way people might think that with a reduced customer base our cars will become more exclusive as fewer people will be able to afford them

Manager 3: Here’s another idea - so that those who cannot now afford our cars lets change the finance rates down a little, how about 5.9% instead of 6.9%, that should bring in 100’s of new sales because finance is cheaper than it was so the idiots think they are getting a bargain on a PCP............ and we still laugh all the way to the bank and sales will be maintained.

MD - Guys great ideas - get to it, we will be back in profit by Q3 this year instead of posting another huge loss..........


Sorry JLR we, the long suffering customers, can see straight through your plans - why don’t you listen to us - your cars are about- 25k overpriced already, other financial outlets are charging way lower interest rates on HP and PCP and it appears that the people that you made redundant earlier this year was the entire QC team as the general finish of the cars is poor and getting worse and you need to be developing more efficient power plants and BEV’s rather than PHEVs and have them available at the change of model year or facelift not in three years time and after further price hikes.

This is a very easy going forum with an incredible collective knowledge - and opinion... lot’s of opinion - on both RRS and the broader Land Rover product offerings. When I come across a boring post or a boring thread I just move on. I suspect most people find my posts a bit boring, so I would draw comfort from knowing other people also simply move on rather than dwelling on “there’s that boring iLard again”!  L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso
RRS TDV6 HSE Lux (MY2011)... Nara Bronze / Arabica - now gone!

100inch wrote:

Tim in Scotland wrote:

I would love to have been a fly on the office wall at JLR’s Ivory Towers when they were discussing these changes at JLR, I bet it didn’t go something like this but I wouldn’t surprised at all if it did.........

MD - Gentlemen we have a problem - regular customers are abandoning the brands, new customers are being put off buying because of what they read on the internet and on social media. There are loads of unwanted built cars waiting for customers on dealership forecourts and the dealers are drowning under used cars with Diesel engines that migh snap the crankshaft. We HAVE to do something about about dropping sales, large numbers of rejected vehicles and lots of warranty repairs because our QC system is failing. I need some help to fix the issues......

Manager 1 Sir: Let’s change the specs of the cars, we could make what was standard equipment into optional and charge more
and reduce the colors available as standard.

Manager 2: Oh I have another suggestion let’s hike the prices overall, for options, paints, accessories and the completed cars - that way people might think that with a reduced customer base our cars will become more exclusive as fewer people will be able to afford them

Manager 3: Here’s another idea - so that those who cannot now afford our cars lets change the finance rates down a little, how about 5.9% instead of 6.9%, that should bring in 100’s of new sales because finance is cheaper than it was so the idiots think they are getting a bargain on a PCP............ and we still laugh all the way to the bank and sales will be maintained.

MD - Guys great ideas - get to it, we will be back in profit by Q3 this year instead of posting another huge loss..........


Sorry JLR we, the long suffering customers, can see straight through your plans - why don’t you listen to us - your cars are about- 25k overpriced already, other financial outlets are charging way lower interest rates on HP and PCP and it appears that the people that you made redundant earlier this year was the entire QC team as the general finish of the cars is poor and getting worse and you need to be developing more efficient power plants and BEV’s rather than PHEVs and have them available at the change of model year or facelift not in three years time and after further price hikes.

I am the only one who gets really bored about such write ups?

Tim's getting old leave him alone gents

Back to topic though - I personally think this is a VERY bad move for JLR - not many people will be upgrading or changing to another RR or RRS with these prices and lease prices - it's ridiculous

My apologies for upsetting folks, my post was meant to be partially light hearted.

Tim - in November 2017 when I started considering replacements for my RRS that was going to be 3 years old in March 2018 I was emphatically told by 3 dealers from three of the big groups with JLR franchises that the extended warranty did not cover that issue, even today if you delve deeply with senior managers it is unlikely that the company that provides the extended warranty will 100% cover a replacement engine - some dealers will offer a letter that they will cover it in the “unlikely” event of a failure. My SDv6 had another 2 years to run on the service agreement and had always been serviced and in April 2018 MOT’d at a franchised main dealer - even they said that in their experience of several SDv6 failures none of them had been replaced or repaired under warranty on the extended scheme, the owners having to bite the bullet and cough up. I know of 2 late run out Disco 4’s that had replacement engines BUT they were still within the factory warranty period. As recently as 2 weeks ago I inquired at a local (I have 5 JLR franchises within 50 miles of home) dealership when they had a very low miles 2 year old 2016 SDv6 RRS Autobiography on their forecourt that after the warranty runs out this June there was only a small chance of getting even a contribution from JLR on a car that still had 3 years service agreement to run. So unless JLR comes out with a public statement and makes it clear in their extra warranty that the issue is covered then there is a problem - as far as I know there is no such letter or statement from JLR and we have to go on the word of dealers who, as we know from any marque, will try to avoid paying out 1p on anything without a huge fight.
I can assure you that had I had that re-assurance I would still be driving around in my last RRS but I considered the “attraction” of having to foot an £18000 bill for a new engine was not enticing me one iota. I also didn’t want to be going into retirement owing Blackhorse Finance >£42000 for a car that was plummeting in value and re-cut my cloth accordingly. I have a deposit on a Land Rover product lower down the product range to replace both my Defender and the Countryman that has no option of the SDv6 engine which, design faults aside, is a fantastic engine. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

RRSman wrote:

Back to topic though - I personally think this is a VERY bad move for JLR - not many people will be upgrading or changing to another RR or RRS with these prices and lease prices - it's ridiculous

I’ve got no reason to study the prices from the volume manufacturers, but the last time that I looked at the price of a 3 Series, it had risen above and beyond the price of something half decent We can have a pop at LR for raising prices but, comparing like with like, I suspect we’re going to find the same in terms of pricing and finance rates with any comparable company. A Fatty owner, just dropping by

Tim in Scotland wrote:

My apologies for upsetting folks, my post was meant to be partially light hearted.

Tim - in November 2017 when I started considering replacements for my RRS that was going to be 3 years old in March 2018 I was emphatically told by 3 dealers from three of the big groups with JLR franchises that the extended warranty did not cover that issue, even today if you delve deeply with senior managers it is unlikely that the company that provides the extended warranty will 100% cover a replacement engine - some dealers will offer a letter that they will cover it in the “unlikely” event of a failure. My SDv6 had another 2 years to run on the service agreement and had always been serviced and in April 2018 MOT’d at a franchised main dealer - even they said that in their experience of several SDv6 failures none of them had been replaced or repaired under warranty on the extended scheme, the owners having to bite the bullet and cough up. I know of 2 late run out Disco 4’s that had replacement engines BUT they were still within the factory warranty period. As recently as 2 weeks ago I inquired at a local (I have 5 JLR franchises within 50 miles of home) dealership when they had a very low miles 2 year old 2016 SDv6 RRS Autobiography on their forecourt that after the warranty runs out this June there was only a small chance of getting even a contribution from JLR on a car that still had 3 years service agreement to run. So unless JLR comes out with a public statement and makes it clear in their extra warranty that the issue is covered then there is a problem - as far as I know there is no such letter or statement from JLR and we have to go on the word of dealers who, as we know from any marque, will try to avoid paying out 1p on anything without a huge fight.
I can assure you that had I had that re-assurance I would still be driving around in my last RRS but I considered the “attraction” of having to foot an £18000 bill for a new engine was not enticing me one iota. I also didn’t want to be going into retirement owing Blackhorse Finance >£42000 for a car that was plummeting in value and re-cut my cloth accordingly. I have a deposit on a Land Rover product lower down the product range to replace both my Defender and the Countryman that has no option of the SDv6 engine which, design faults aside, is a fantastic engine.

Plug-In Hybrid Evoque or a Plug-In Hybrid Defender both of which the dealer says should be here late 2020 or early 2021 - i’m Sold on electric assistance but having seen the lead balloon style depreciation of EV’s i’m Not keen as a private buyer to go fully electric quite yet - it’s a great system but only if you want to lease/PCP which I don’t and the GFV is good. 2021 my Tdi300 90 will be 25 years old and might even have reached 100,000 miles by then and the Countryman will be coming up to its first service (on elapsed time but only half way there on miles) and MOT at 3 years old. Of course a lot will depend on how many more price rises JLR will add in the meantime! 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Red Merle wrote:

RRSman wrote:

Back to topic though - I personally think this is a VERY bad move for JLR - not many people will be upgrading or changing to another RR or RRS with these prices and lease prices - it's ridiculous

I’ve got no reason to study the prices from the volume manufacturers, but the last time that I looked at the price of a 3 Series, it had risen above and beyond the price of something half decent We can have a pop at LR for raising prices but, comparing like with like, I suspect we’re going to find the same in terms of pricing and finance rates with any comparable company.

Oddly, a lot of people do! It’s right up there with cars like the Focus in the sales charts  A Fatty owner, just dropping by

Sales charts include leased vehicles too.

RRSman wrote:

Red Merle wrote:

RRSman wrote:

Back to topic though - I personally think this is a VERY bad move for JLR - not many people will be upgrading or changing to another RR or RRS with these prices and lease prices - it's ridiculous

I’ve got no reason to study the prices from the volume manufacturers, but the last time that I looked at the price of a 3 Series, it had risen above and beyond the price of something half decent We can have a pop at LR for raising prices but, comparing like with like, I suspect we’re going to find the same in terms of pricing and finance rates with any comparable company.

Who buys a 3 series in todays day and age? I currently pay £280 a month on a 520d M sport (2018) 10k miles per annum over 24 months and the car is worth £45k. Someone would be mad to buy it with leases so cheap.

The new A Class in AMG line trim can be had for £150 a month over 24 months too.

Just answered my own question by using the BMW calculator. On a 520 m valued at £40,520.00 over 24 months with an APR of 4.9 the deposit is £13,900 to give a monthly payment of £281.78. The real cost per month is therefore £281.78 plus the deposit divided by 24 which is £589.16 giving a total of £870.94 not quite as cheap as claimed.
So many people seem to forget to factor in their deposit when they're looking at their repayment costs.
Tim Tim
RRS sold and replaced with a Skoda Kodiaq after appalling RR Dealer experience and LR inability to supply new cars in any sort of reasonable time frame..

Now, if the dealer can make that deposit up from equity in a trade in that’s owned outright, it looks a mighty tempting figure to get a new car. The dealer will then try to persuade the customer that the resale will be so high in another 2 years that they’ll be “plenty of equity to do it all again”. But, in a lot of ways, these agreements do place a lot of risk with the finance company - if the resale price collapses before the end of the term, they could lose a lot of money.

Whether that “plenty of equity”argument holds any water is for the customer to judge. But, with the mileage I do, this is all irrelevant anyway; 10,000 miles pa means that I’d have to park it up for 9 months of the year!  A Fatty owner, just dropping by