Prelude wrote:

I voted OUT as well. Immigration is out of control. Australia has the right idea on immigration. We must have full control of our borders.

Betfair odds are now:

Remain: 1.15
Leave : 7.20


Do I cash out my Remain bet for £1.55 profit now, or hold out for the full £3.40 tomorrow morning? The breakfast croissant served in my local greek-run cafe will be £2.90 so I'll probably hold out a bit longer.  L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso
RRS TDV6 HSE Lux (MY2011)... Nara Bronze / Arabica - now gone!

Ilard, Danish Bacon, Polish Eggs, French Croissants, Dutch or Italian Coffee with German or Dutch Milk at a Greek Restaurant????? A true European! 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

Prelude wrote:

I voted OUT as well.

Pufftmw wrote:

I voted OUT this morning.

Hell yeah, fell free to kill the brands you love. The whole economy will follow soon.

Click image to enlarge

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-idUSKCN0Z6199 Regards etc.,

Wojtek

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WAS: 2006 RRS Supercharged
IS: 2010 RRS TDV8 HSE

Its annual profit is only 2bn now, can't see it dropping by 50%...

It might if they actually spent some it on Customer Service.

Cheers
Col

HemoRRS wrote:

Its annual profit is only 2bn now, can't see it dropping by 50%...

"By the end of the decade" = 2017~2020.

Oh and here's a verbatim copy of a Facebook post by a chap named Neil Ingoe, though not mine, I fully agree:

I said I’d stay out of it. I said I’d keep my opinions to myself, but I was tipped over the edge by arriving home today to find a pamphlet in my other half’s name, and on the same doormat, a lies-ridden rag in my own name.

I started scribbling a response on it, which the intention of mailing it back to them, but after a few minutes listening to the sound of my own indignant breath snorting through my nostrils, I realised the only way I could expunge this fury was by battering my keyboard into submission.

Respectfully, Vote Leave, I would like to unsubscribe from future communications, and here’s why:

It is a pack of lies. Seriously, this is GCSE-level stuff. We as a country are about to take the biggest decision of several generations, one that could not feasibly be undone in my lifetime, and we’re being asked to do so on the basis of lies, half-truths, distortions and, in case that wasn’t enough to hoodwink you, a bit of old-fashioned racism to boot.

Lie #1: Over a quarter of a million people migrate to the UK every year
And over 300,000 people leave the UK every year
( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-el...-year.html )
(but because they’re British, they’re called “Expatriots”). You can argue the toss about whether free movement of people within the EU is a good or a bad thing, but you cannot argue that it doesn’t work both ways. You can also argue the toss about whether immigration is a net good, but when a leading Leave campaigner comes out to say that immigration was only a positive until 2002 (when those nasty east Europeans were allowed in), I start to smell racism, and hear a dog-whistle.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/j...ea-leadsom

Lie #2: The EU is expanding to include Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey.
Not strictly true this one. All of the above have expressed their interest in becoming members - in Turkey’s case, as far back as the 1980s - but none are close to having full membership just yet. Yes, Turkey does have a very large population, that’s right, and yes, new members would have the same rights… including a veto on new members. Does the UK have a veto on new members?

Yes, it does. Unless it leaves, when it doesn’t. See also Lie #6.

Lie #3: The EU has changed enormously since 1973
Thank you Sherlock; so have most places. I almost gave you a pass on this one, until I noticed the rather disingenuous claim about needing to prop up the Euro… erm, we’re exempt from Eurozone bailouts. Next.

Lie #4: EU law over-rides UK law
You almost had me on this one, but you need to look at the small print… immigration, counter-terrorism, prisoner voting… thaey are not ECJ decisions, but ECHR decisions. And that is a totally different story. Excuse me while I go off on a tangent…

What they actually want to exempt us from is the European Convention of Human Rights, membership of which is a precondition of EU membership. They would instead replace the Convention with a British version - telling called “rights and responsibilities” - which would defeat the entire principle of universal human rights that we the UK helped to forge. Namely, that regardless what the government of a particular country thinks at any given time you are entitled to be treated with dignity.

Why did we create this principle? Because about 65 years ago, one of our neighbour states changed its laws to allow itself to gas 6 million people within its territory. In doing so, they did nothing illegal but breached every standard of human decency. So after that, we decided it would be a good idea to write down that “standard of human decency” just in case anyone was in any doubt.

So if you belive Lie #4 on the basis of the examples they offer there, then you are falling for one of the bigger porkies of human history.

Lie #5: The EU costs us £350m a week
This isn’t so much a lie as a cluster-lie. It’s several lies packed into one big one. Let me break it down a little:

Lie #5.1 £350m a week.
Which doesn’t count a) the rebate, b) the funds we receive in EU grants for projects we’d otherwise have to fund out of government spending.

Lie #5.2 Enough to build a new hospital…
Spare me. Frankly, if you fall for this one you deserve all you get. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Chris Grayling and Nigel Farage the defenders of the NHS and British public services? Despite their track records in government and / or stated public positions to the contrary?

Lie #5.3 We have no control over how it’s spent
Rubbish, because…

Lie #5.4 That’s decided by politicians and officials in Brussels…
Who we elect! Commisioners are appointed by member states governments, and the European Commission’s proposed laws are subject to ratification by the European Parliament, which is so democratic it actually gives anti-EU parties such as UKIP disproportionately more seats than their share of vote entitles them to. For example, in 2014 UKIP got 25% of the vote in the UK, and received 35% of the UK’s seats. In the British elections to the Holy Seat of Democracy the following year, they received 1m more votes and took home a paltry one seat.

Lie #5.5 … not by the people we elect
This is not technically a lie. They should be decided by the people we elect, but the never turn up.
( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...16962.html )

Lie #5.6 [On the reverse they equate this figure to £19bn a year]
£19bn a year is about 2.4% of the UK government’s annual £770bn spending. So turn that into household budgeting… imagine you earn a typical salary of £35k, meaning you take home about £2,100 a month. The equivalent would be a subscription that cost you £51.66 a month. So, on a par with your gym membership or Sky Sports subscription.

Lie #5.7 We get less than half of that back
49.2 % actually. That’s worse than Spain, which just about breaks even, and certainly much worse than Poland which contributes -22%. But compared to Germany, which only gets back 39%, we’re doing pretty well. More here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union

Lie #6 You don’t have to be a member of the EU to trade with it
First bit’s true. Switzerland’s a really bad example though. Why choose Switzerland when it undermines your argument so badly? Switzerland and Norway are part of the wider European Free Trade area, which allows them free access to the common market in return for accepting a few conditions like freedom of movement for EU citizens… which kind of undermines your racist fearmongering from Lie #1.

And as for all UK firms having to obey EU rules, are these the rules you want to emancipate us from?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSgaiTdWoAAhYvD.jpg

Lie #7 While we’re in the EU we can’t negotiate our own trade deals
Two points in response to this: 1) the USA has already said that negotiating a trade deal with the UK wouldn’t be a priority, and 2) most small businesses don’t do import / export. There you’re just re-hashing lie #6.

Lie #8 There are risks in voting either way
Experts, politicians and business are divided. I’ll give you politicians, and maybe give you busin… nah, who am kidding? This is Captain Redbeard Rum’s “opinion is divided on the subject" which he clarified as "all the other Captains say it is, I say it isn’t.”

Lie #9 [Special Bonus Racist Dog Whistle]
What the hell are Syria and Iraq doing on this diagram? Are they applying for EU membership too?

So no, all in all, my mind’s made up, and I think you can save yourself some postage by taking me off the list. Regards etc.,

Wojtek

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WAS: 2006 RRS Supercharged
IS: 2010 RRS TDV8 HSE

I honestly don't care about the profit of JLR, them complaining about potentially making less profit and that being the reason why I should vote to remain in the EU is a joke.

I don't want to be part of a system that dictates 60% of our laws. And expansion of the EU to include Turkey scares me.

Spain is within the EU and look at their youth unemployment. What we need to remember is that for the past 7 years, since the financial crisis, the UK has embarked upon an incredibly loose fiscal and monetary stance that has pushed up the national debt to over one-and-a-half trillion pounds. Tax allowance raised. Corporation tax lowered. Inheritance tax lowered. Help-to-buy and a regeneration of the building industry. Massive QE by the Bank of England. Our economic recovery during this time has had very little to do with the EU, otherwise Spain would have had the same success (and that's an export driven economy). Instead it's been directly attributed to government policy. So anyone that makes the argument that we're a stronger economy by virtue of the EU is living in the clouds (sorry if that irritates those of you in the clouds). Recently bought a 2007 RRS HSE TDV6 for a Pimp-My-Ride-Project.
DONE: Meduza front bumper, AB rear bumper, AB tailpipes, calipers repainted, rear upper tailgate upgrade, side steps, AB front grille, AB side vents, rear LED lights, clear side repeaters, integrated daytime running lights, LED headlights.
TO DO: color code sills and pillars.

Last edited by tanloverluke on Thu Jun 23 2016 5:57pm. Edited 1 time in total

There are some things open to dispute, but many of those things categorically do not fulfil the definition of the word "lie". For instance, it is 100% accurate that "EU law over-rides UK law".

#1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 & 9 are not lies in any way. #9 is not even a statement so it cannot be a "lie". #5 is certainly open to debate, though it has also been phrased in other ways that are a little more honest.

Once upon a time people had a little respect for the term "lie" and would think twice before using it.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver

Even though Remain are [thankfully] going to win, I hope the strong support for Leave will deliver some positive change in the EU to minimise the downsides and fully maximise the upsides. Compromise is needed.

And in 10 years or so we can have another referendum if necessary. But we need a few more years to push some buttons and pull some levers before we know for sure if this project is working well enough for the greater majority.

Maybe Johnson is our saviour after all. The cunning blond fox. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso
RRS TDV6 HSE Lux (MY2011)... Nara Bronze / Arabica - now gone!

You still have 23 minutes left to make a difference, at least please vote, regardless of your choice. John

RRS MY12 SDV6 HSE. Sumatra Black/Ebony & Walnut + Dynamic Pack, + Cold Climate Pack + Memory Pack, Digital TV/DVD, Premium Leather, Cornering Lights, Cooler/Fridge Box, & most Options.

just when you want a like button it's not there  Recently bought a 2007 RRS HSE TDV6 for a Pimp-My-Ride-Project.
DONE: Meduza front bumper, AB rear bumper, AB tailpipes, calipers repainted, rear upper tailgate upgrade, side steps, AB front grille, AB side vents, rear LED lights, clear side repeaters, integrated daytime running lights, LED headlights.
TO DO: color code sills and pillars.

This is about the 2040s not the 1940s.

Although I can never forgive the French for actually fighting against us Brits in WWII in Africa. The toads! Forgive and forget is probably the best way to describe the 19th and 20th centuries for all Europeans. Oh the shame. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso
RRS TDV6 HSE Lux (MY2011)... Nara Bronze / Arabica - now gone!

Johnski wrote:

2040s, TheWojtek, 2040's. (Or 2039). Unbelievable atrocities by many European nations back in 1939 era and 1839 era. But we've come a long way since then. And we will go a long way forward from now, just got a few wrinkles to iron out. L405 P400e Autobiography (MY2020)... Silicon Silver / Espresso
RRS TDV6 HSE Lux (MY2011)... Nara Bronze / Arabica - now gone!