4wheeldriver

Not disagreeing with you but need to clarify the regs were talking about .

The regulations you refer to are for driving licences not for Construction and Use Regs. If your license has BE then you can drive a vehicle upto 3500kg MAM plus tow over 750kg upto permissable towing load / gross train weight.

Interesting thread which we need to get right as a lot of LR owners use their vehicles for towing. The whole range of LR's are some of the best all round towing vehicles. I think between us weve got it right but I am open to correction. MY10 TDV6 HSE, Alaska White, Ebony with Contrast, Park Heat, Paddle Shift, Privacy, Heated Steering Wheel, Extended & Premium Leather,

MY07 TDV6 HSE, Zermatt Silver, Gone

-----------------------------
1964 Austin Healey 3000

2007 LR Defender

2011 VW Tiguan R Line

maybe somebody like "Character" on disco3 who tows for a living could tell you the correct laws

Landlord

The construction and use regs are used for commercials i.e. Hire and reward or own account use.

I was trying to clarify the needs for tacos and 'O' licences which only apply for commercial use. Otherwise nearly every FFRR, RRS and D3/4 driver would be required to fit tacos and have an CPC National/International to pull a caravan on holiday.

Don't think Jimmy 7500 stated what the actual usage was going to be but if he's hauling his own car(s) around I think he's pretty safe.

The MAM and GVW/UVW only comes in if you passed your car test after Jan 1997 for a B+E licence.

I appreciate what you're saying but I'm only referring back to what I was taught.

Mind you I'm down your way the start of March for a week so can always meet up and discuss it over a beer and I'll bring my copy of the Road Transport Directives! All THREE folders of it!
Sure we can get through them before the bottom of a keg!!! That's assuming you soft southerners can drink that much....  Current, M135i in Estoril Blue with more extras than the cast of Ben Hur.

535d m-sport Platinum grey and a few extras.... Gone

X5 3.0 sd in Space Grey, 20's, Dynamic Pack, Memory Pack, Media Pack, Tow Pack, Rear DVD, Panoramic Sunroof, Steps, 7 Seat Pack, Reversing Camera with moving lines, programmable park heat, etc etc etc - Gone

Range Rover Sport Santorini, privacy, dvd, towpack GONE!!!

4wheeldriver wrote:

Landlord

The construction and use regs are used for commercials i.e. Hire and reward or own account use.

Con and Use Regs apply to all motor vehicles designed or permitted to be used on a highway.

CPC National - now you are getting technical

Quote:

Don't think Jimmy 7500 stated what the actual usage was going to be but if he's hauling his own car(s) around I think he's pretty safe.

Quote:

The MAM and GVW/UVW only comes in if you passed your car test after Jan 1997 for a B+E licence.

Agreed therefore wont apply to any of the old on this site

Quote:

Mind you I'm down your way the start of March for a week so can always meet up and discuss it over a beer and I'll bring my copy of the Road Transport Directives! All THREE folders of it!
Sure we can get through them before the bottom of a keg!!! That's assuming you soft southerners can drink that much....

Bring it on - although I will have past out after the 3rd pint  MY10 TDV6 HSE, Alaska White, Ebony with Contrast, Park Heat, Paddle Shift, Privacy, Heated Steering Wheel, Extended & Premium Leather,

MY07 TDV6 HSE, Zermatt Silver, Gone

-----------------------------
1964 Austin Healey 3000

2007 LR Defender

2011 VW Tiguan R Line

[/quote]Con and Use Regs apply to all motor vehicles designed or permitted to be used on a highway.[/quote]

Sorry. Wrong regs Im referring to but in fairness Im working from memory here and its getting old and rusty!! Now Im home Ive got the books to hand so I'll go have a study and find out for certain. Besides its about time Iread the revisements anyway!!

And I'll let you drink shandies so youve a chance to keep up.......  Current, M135i in Estoril Blue with more extras than the cast of Ben Hur.

535d m-sport Platinum grey and a few extras.... Gone

X5 3.0 sd in Space Grey, 20's, Dynamic Pack, Memory Pack, Media Pack, Tow Pack, Rear DVD, Panoramic Sunroof, Steps, 7 Seat Pack, Reversing Camera with moving lines, programmable park heat, etc etc etc - Gone

Range Rover Sport Santorini, privacy, dvd, towpack GONE!!!

Just had my copy of the Freight Transport Association yearbook 2010 arrive today.

Looking in there for Category B licences (passed since 1/1/97)

Word for word as follows;

'Cat B allows the driver of a vehicle upto 3.5 tonnes to tow a trailer upto 750Kg. It also allows the towing of a trailer over 750kgs provided BOTH the following conditions are met;
1. The sum of the vehicle MAM and trailer MAM does not exceed 3.5tonnes
2. The MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicles.

Example
1. Van MAM - 2260 - larger trailer MAM of 1240 totals 3500kg
2. Van ULW - 1300 - maximum total mass of 3500kg.

A flowchart is detailed, I try to replicate below;

Is the MAM of the trailer over 750kg - NO - then Category B
- Yes - Add together the MAM's of the vehicle and trailer, is this over 3500kg.

Answer Yes to above and you need a Category B+E Licence
Answer No to above then - Is the MAM of the trailer more than the unladen weight of the vehicle.
No? then Category B
Yes? then Category B+E

End of information.

IIRC the gross weight of a RRS is 3500, if this is correct then you can only tow a 750kg trailer nothing more. You cannot use the higher weight trailer as the MAM of the RRS is already 3500 so no trailer can be towed with Category B.

So in short, Category B covers a 3500kg vehicle to tow a 750kg trailer making 4250kg in total.

Simple when you know, been in this industry 27 years and still have to check the book everytime!!

As for a tachograph, any private driving unconnected with any employment would not need a tachograph installed. This also covers moving a friends vehicle who pays you to cover the costs incurred for the journey, no profit element. This is purely a private transaction, but do remember don't try to pull the wool over people's eyes as it doesn't always work and you could end up in a lot of trouble.

Please note that this is my personal opinion...................

I thought that the 3500 limit for a braked trailer (not air brakes) which obviously needs to be kept within. The the second part is that if you are towing commercially (even if under 3500) then you required a tacho.

We've often thought of having a triler for local collections of vehicles, however (as this thread demonstrates) there is an awful lot of red tape, of which most is very confusing.

Agreed, that someone who tows for a living (Character) could probably offer a definitive answer.

Interesting topic.

James

Lookers Park Royal wrote:

Interesting topic.

Tandem wrote:

Just had my copy of the Freight Transport Association yearbook 2010 arrive today.

Tandem wrote:

IIRC the gross weight of a RRS is 3500

gothatway wrote:

Lookers Park Royal wrote:

Interesting topic.

Worrying topic, I'd say !

I've got an old-style licence with A+E, so AIUI I don't need to pass the trailer test.

How much can I tow a) as a personal thing and b) if it's for commercial purposes (own business) ?

And it's the MAM of the trailer that counts (not the actual weight, even if it's full of feathers) ?

A) As a personal thing, up to the vehicles unladen weight but best to stay within the 85% rule for safety.

B) Thats what I think we're trying to find out here now even though the original thread was just for hiring a trailer to move a car!!!!  Current, M135i in Estoril Blue with more extras than the cast of Ben Hur.

535d m-sport Platinum grey and a few extras.... Gone

X5 3.0 sd in Space Grey, 20's, Dynamic Pack, Memory Pack, Media Pack, Tow Pack, Rear DVD, Panoramic Sunroof, Steps, 7 Seat Pack, Reversing Camera with moving lines, programmable park heat, etc etc etc - Gone

Range Rover Sport Santorini, privacy, dvd, towpack GONE!!!

Lookers Park Royal wrote:

I thought that the 3500 limit for a braked trailer (not air brakes) which obviously needs to be kept within. The the second part is that if you are towing commercially (even if under 3500) then you required a tacho.

We've often thought of having a triler for local collections of vehicles, however (as this thread demonstrates) there is an awful lot of red tape, of which most is very confusing.

Agreed, that someone who tows for a living (Character) could probably offer a definitive answer.Interesting topic.

James

Quote:

Example of category B+E: Motor vehicle with a MAM up to 3,500 kg towing a trailer of any weight over 750 kg.

Ok. Im now sitting with CPC Freight National regulations in front of me and have been doing a bit of reading.

"Assume a licence gained after 1997 (as previously mentioned). In this case, a caravan or horse box OVER 750kg can be towed with a Category B licence provided that

-the max gross weight of the towing vehicle added to the max gross weight of the trailer DOES NOT exceed 3500kgs when actually on a road- and

-the maximum authorised gross weight of the trailer is LESS than the UNLADEN weight of the towing vehicle

If the towing vehicle is 3500kg MAXIMUM authorised weight, then the trailer is restricted to 750 kgs when using a Cat B licence"

NExt is the 'O' Licence rules.

You need an operators licence to carry goods (or burden) connected with any trade or business if you "USE" a motor vehicle on a road with:

a gross plated weight of more than 3.5 tonnes; or

if it has no gross plated weight an unladen weight of more than 1525kg

Heres an interesting point that refers to Land Rover specifically!!

In Appendix 2, Vehicles which do not need to be on an Operators Licence or the use of which do not require an operators licence. The following list reflects the substance of the main exemptions from operator licencing and is summary only.

"Dual purpose vehicles (eg LAND ROVERS) and their trailers"!!!

The list of when and where the TAco needs to be fitted is quite extensive and Im going to have to do a bit more reading. Once I do that I may type it up properly and then post it up. There is a distance exception (50km) but there is also other ways round it too. Current, M135i in Estoril Blue with more extras than the cast of Ben Hur.

535d m-sport Platinum grey and a few extras.... Gone

X5 3.0 sd in Space Grey, 20's, Dynamic Pack, Memory Pack, Media Pack, Tow Pack, Rear DVD, Panoramic Sunroof, Steps, 7 Seat Pack, Reversing Camera with moving lines, programmable park heat, etc etc etc - Gone

Range Rover Sport Santorini, privacy, dvd, towpack GONE!!!

4wheeldriver wrote:

You need an operators licence to carry goods (or burden) connected with any trade or business if you "USE" a motor vehicle on a road with:

a gross plated weight of more than 3.5 tonnes; or

if it has no gross plated weight an unladen weight of more than 1525kg

Thanks for your efforts so far - much appreciated.

Is the gross plated weight the same as the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight, presumably), stated previously to be 3175 for a TDV6 or TDV8 ? If so, then it looks like we're OK to use an RRS without a trailer for business. Unfortunately, I cannot get many big round bales of haylage in the back, and the animals would make a terrible mess of the leather (though I have carried a sickly alpaca in the boot before now )

gothatway wrote:

4wheeldriver wrote:

You need an operators licence to carry goods (or burden) connected with any trade or business if you "USE" a motor vehicle on a road with:

a gross plated weight of more than 3.5 tonnes; or

if it has no gross plated weight an unladen weight of more than 1525kg

Thanks for your efforts so far - much appreciated.

Is the gross plated weight the same as the GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight, presumably), stated previously to be 3175 for a TDV6 or TDV8 ? If so, then it looks like we're OK to use an RRS without a trailer for business. Unfortunately, I cannot get many big round bales of haylage in the back, and the animals would make a terrible mess of the leather (though I have carried a sickly alpaca in the boot before now )

So to sum up so far

Presuming most of us have the license issued before 1997 and has B+E (A+E in old money !) we can therefore drive;

RRS towing

an unbraked trailer with a maximum GW less than 750kgs (trailer + load) OR

a braked trailer with a maximum GW of 3500kgs (trailer + load)

Not longer than 7m

Not wider than 2.3m

For non commercial use and

Will not require O License or Tacho -

Therefore I can pull my boat,

4wheeldriver how do you feel about summing up the commercial regs  MY10 TDV6 HSE, Alaska White, Ebony with Contrast, Park Heat, Paddle Shift, Privacy, Heated Steering Wheel, Extended & Premium Leather,

MY07 TDV6 HSE, Zermatt Silver, Gone

-----------------------------
1964 Austin Healey 3000

2007 LR Defender

2011 VW Tiguan R Line