15 snapped cranks in one year at one garage? That's a bigger problem than some would have us believe...  2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Thank you,,do I get a trophy 🏆 Andy.
21 Ford Ranger
Gone but not forgotten
Focus RS Red Edition
2015 RRS AB Fuji.
2014 RRS SC Santorini
2016 VW Amarok
2014 RRS AB Fuji
2012 RRS Red Edition Fuji
2015 Nissan Navara
2012 RRS SE Santorini
2008 RRS White
2007 RRS Santorino

RRSTDV8 wrote:

15 snapped cranks in one year at one garage? That's a bigger problem than some would have us believe...

^^^ I agree Kev

MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

11 of the 12 look to have snapped in the same place. 2019 5.0 SC SVA (Current)
2012 5.0 SC AB. Sadly written off by a campervan
23 plate Focus ST (Current)
1942 VEP Ford GPW Jeep (Willys) (Current)
1943 Whites M16 Halftrack (Current)
16 plate Eurofighter Typhoon, 2 x Eurojet engines with 20,000lbs thrust each. 1380mph

Well done Andy (RRSPORT) and Colin (DISCO3/4)

So it's the tiebreak question to Colin and Andy now. How many (including the snapped cranks) did we scrap in 2019? If you're both right or both closest, I'll spilt the eventual prize between you.

Everyone can have a guess, but if Andy and Colin can PM me, I won't have to pick you out of the crowd!

Colin is at a slight disadvantage as he got rid of his RR for a L200 (traitor!). So we might have to tailor the prize accordingly.

Once we have a winner, I'll give my take on the crank situation. There have been lots of thoughts/views/opinions on the forums and I think a bit more insight might be helpful.

Good luck guys.... Joe

PM sent.Just for everyone else I’ve gone for 31 Andy.
21 Ford Ranger
Gone but not forgotten
Focus RS Red Edition
2015 RRS AB Fuji.
2014 RRS SC Santorini
2016 VW Amarok
2014 RRS AB Fuji
2012 RRS Red Edition Fuji
2015 Nissan Navara
2012 RRS SE Santorini
2008 RRS White
2007 RRS Santorino

RRSTDV8 wrote:

15 snapped cranks in one year at one garage? That's a bigger problem than some would have us believe...

That's only 1 and a bit snapped cranks a month. Genuinely thought it would have been more...

For balance, we didn't have any reported bottom end issues with a 3.0 engine in 2019

Tyrefitter wrote:

PM sent.Just for everyone else I’ve gone for 31

OK, the answers are in from Colin and Andy. I can say that we don't have an exact number and it's not a tiebreak.

Colin guessed at 22
Andy guessed at 31

The total number of crankshafts (snapped, bent, melted or whatever) we could not reuse in 2019 is 40

So Andy from RRSPORT is the nearest

Well done to Colin for a valiant effort and sticking with the forum, even though you turned to the dark side

Give me a call to discuss your well deserved prize please Andy.




As before, we lost a few cranks to customers for whatever reason??

We'll be back with a new competition soon. Feel free to make suggestions folks..... Joe

Congratulations Andy Kev

MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey

OvalAutos wrote:

Once we have a winner, I'll give my take on the crank situation. There have been lots of thoughts/views/opinions on the forums and I think a bit more insight might be helpful.

15 snapped + 25 scraped = 40 cranks we rejected. Is it really that bad?

First off, I’m not going to say how many engines we’ve remanufactured in 2019 (Sorry Gary_P). NOTE: We also fit LR recon and 2nd hand customer supplied engines, so I’m not including these. Anybody who’s been here will know our yard is always full and the lead time is between 4-5 weeks As KevW has mentioned, we do specialise in engines, but also do quite a bit of regular service/repair work. So the number of engines we do is not reflective in the general service sector or engine shops. Don’t forgot that we also do other LR engines besides the 3.0 TDV6. However, we stopped doing 2.7s engines in 2018 as the cost is usually more than the value of the car. It’s a sad fact of life that anything LR/RR is expensive, except the value of the car itself and I can’t justify presenting an invoice for an engine on a car worth less!

The question I get asked the most and see more often on the forums is “Why are there so many TDV6 failures?”. The short answer is there aren’t as many as you think. Disco_Mikey didn’t even have a single enquiry about a 3.0 failure last year and I don’t think he sits around with little work! With the inside knowledge I have and using a little bit of of common sense, it’s not hard to figure out that the number of engine failures (yes, mostly cranks) is within the limits that JLR will accept. Here’s a response to this question I sent recently and pretty much sums it all up.

Hi Michael,

The problem is not as widespread as you may think. All vehicle manufacturers allow for an acceptable percentage of failures during 2 stages of the vehicle life; Under warranty and after warranty. They also take in to account the negative PR in both stages. This is not just relevant to the engine.

When the TDV6 was developed in the early 2000s', it's life expectancy was 150k or 10yrs. During this time the number (percentage) of failures expected was set to an acceptable level. As the current incarnation of the engine is still basically the same with minor modifications to accommodate stricter emission rules, the number of failures is still within the limits.

While it is possible to design/build an engine to have 99% reliability during it's planned life, the cost is prohibitive and you can't eradicate the single biggest factor in most failures (engines, gearboxes and so on) and that is human error. Poor servicing, cheap oils and not even checking oil levels. I have personally witnessed, in a big named main dealer, the engine oil drained from a car, the technician distracted and watch him then start the car before refilling it..!!! Having said that, even if you removed the human factor, things can fail.

There is no single point of failure on any engine, there are many. Every manufacturer has failures, but some have a better percentage. I've seen Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Ford, Fiat, Nissan, Audi....... all with failed engines and all within the limits set by the manufacture.

Do you really think any vehicle manufacturer would keep using an item that kept failing and going beyond the set limits? The bad PR and lack of sales would kill them off pretty quickly.

The difference here is the consumers perception that LR/RR are bulletproof, cost a fortune, is an upmarket brand and therefore should be better than the average car. Then the problem is cost; anything LR/RR is expensive and that upsets the consumer even more.

The best thing you can do to preserve your engine is regular servicing with good quality oils and hope for a decent technician.

At the end of the Day Michael, it's all down to luck

The second most common question is “Why do they fail?”. So here we’re not just talking about the crank, but anything that causes the engine to cease working. Here is a short list of things we see that happen besides snapped cranks; Snapped timing chain or belt, spun bearings, timing belt tensioner, melted pistons, overfilled with oil (hydraulic lock), big end, turbo(S), dropped valve, hole in the block and so on. As per my previous response, some can be genuine mechanical failure (bad luck, but within limits) or human stupidity (only God controls the gene pool). THIS HAPPENS TO EVERY ENGINE MANUFACTURER, not just JLR.

“What about the oil pump?” I can hear you say. Well it is certainly plausible to say that a failure of the engine can happen as a result of no oil pressure; spun bearing due to snatch, melted crank due to overheating (low pressure), thrown rod…etc…, but how do you know the pump failed? By failed are we talking no pressure, low pressure or whatever? How many people here have suspected a pump failure was the cause of the engine to do whatever, then taken that suspect pump, stripped it down, inspected it and then fitted it to another (control) engine to actually measure the pump performance? Not many I’m guessing. Like I’m guessing not many have bothered to measure the oil pressure before and after having a new pump fitted while having a belt change. We’ve done all of this and much more to find the silver bullet, but it still alludes me. I won’t go on about the oil system much more here as I’m planning to do a more comprehensive post soon. But just as a little tickle, here’s a few things that might be deemed as a failed pump, which aren’t; blocked filter, worn lifters, bearing wear, cracked oil gallery….

So why do they fail? All of the above and more is the answer. Joe

That was close,I said 21 first then changed to 31  Andy.
21 Ford Ranger
Gone but not forgotten
Focus RS Red Edition
2015 RRS AB Fuji.
2014 RRS SC Santorini
2016 VW Amarok
2014 RRS AB Fuji
2012 RRS Red Edition Fuji
2015 Nissan Navara
2012 RRS SE Santorini
2008 RRS White
2007 RRS Santorino

Does the prize have a V8 petrol engine in it,I hope so  Andy.
21 Ford Ranger
Gone but not forgotten
Focus RS Red Edition
2015 RRS AB Fuji.
2014 RRS SC Santorini
2016 VW Amarok
2014 RRS AB Fuji
2012 RRS Red Edition Fuji
2015 Nissan Navara
2012 RRS SE Santorini
2008 RRS White
2007 RRS Santorino