I don't use two stroke oil in my RRS engine as it's a four stroke. I use two stroke oil in my brush cutter / strimmer because it's a two stroke. Clue's in the name, really.  2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Bardley wrote:

I have no idea what that ^ means.

Means I have fat fingers not ideally suited for smart phone touch screen keyboard

I use it in both, but mainly in my MY 13 SDV6. I have used it in all my CR diesels for over 10 years or 150,000 ish miles, and can only report benefits, quieter, smoother, no issues whatsoever ever and never known a regen was occurring, and I do far too many very short runs.

It’s Marmite, if you like it use it, if you don’t like it don’t use it.

It feels like a placebo effect to me. People put it in wanting an improvement so they say it's improved. A blind test is required to know whether it makes any driver-discernible difference. The scientific-type tests I've seen reported show no testable difference with or without 2SO.

My last RRS did 175k miles when I sold it and it's still going strong with the next owner. Never had 2SO in it. So does that mean 2SO is pointless? Therein lies the conundrum.

Similar applies to a lot of the additives. If someone has spent £20 on a bottle of additive, they're going to want it to be better. They'll tell their mates it's better if pressed on it rather than admit they'd chucked £20 away.

I've tried a couple of different fuel additives and used the super-diesels too. In reality I could not tell you whether it was on supermarket fuel or super, additive-added or not. These days I just chuck in whatever is about when I need a fill up. But then I fill up once or even twice a week so maybe the fact it's being used a lot is more important. Certainly my old TDV8 never ran better than when it was doing 30k miles a year - and that's the whole vehicle was better, not just the engine. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

RRSTDV8 wrote:

Similar applies to a lot of the additives. If someone has spent £20 on a bottle of additive, they're going to want it to be better. They'll tell their mates it's better if pressed on it rather than admit they'd chucked £20 away.

RRSTDV8, totally agree with you, its a placebo effect. That's why I said in my post its subjective. In a fuel tank which holds 80 litres putting in 0.3litre of 2 stroke is like p ing in a swimming pool (0.375%) Saying that after reading the report, I decided to try it for a few months to see if there is any difference & up to now, nothing. Not smoother running, not quieter, no better consumption.
Additives have been around since Adam was a boy & its been proved they do nothing otherwise we would all be using them. I remember getting petrol with my dad & it was 4 gallons & 4 scoots of Redex for £1, dispenced by an attendant & fuel in these days was not as good as it is now.
Super diesels are the same. No difference. I recently had to do 800 miles In a day so thought I would use Super diesel. Almost empty tank before I left so it was the ideal test to fill up & go Car ran exactly the same, & consumption was the same, Only difference was on my debit card, so back to supermarket fuel.
If you want to use additives, fine, but in the real world they don't work

On the two stroke idea, when we first moved over to unleaded petrol, the use of two stroke aided upper cylinder lubrication. Engines that ran hot and weak in fuel in certain cylinders, in line 6 pots and the Jag V12 benefitted in economy, smoothness and dare I say performance,with only a marginal increase if any in exhaust 'smoke'.

Never used it in diesels as diesel itself has lubricant in it.

Dave

From the limited research I've done, with diesel, the only benefits possible are additional detergents and a cleaner burn. Any performance gain comes from the detergents doing some cleaning, but the additive manufacturers seem to admit there is no gain on an already clean engine other than keeping it clean.
Those fuel station super diesels contain extra detergents, so as above no direct power gain possible.

I've no idea on 2 stroke oil as I've never tried it, but it's supposed to be fact that it's a good detergent. Even in a 2 stroke engine it hampers performance (try putting too much in the mix), but is essential for lubrication. I did read one lab study of diesel mixed with 2 stroke oil and the lubricity was actually worse than straight diesel, which kind of goes against the idea of fuel pump lubrication.

In practice all I can really say is my wife was getting the engine lights on the dash several times in her Evoque, but has never had any since using the Archoil stuff for near 2 years. I'm happy with that placebo effect as it's saved her driving round the Island trying to find roads to stay at a sustained +40mph..... 13MY Range Rover Sport Autobiography SDV6 - mine
14MY Range Rover Evoque Dynamic SD4 Black Pack - wife's
99MY Defender 90 TD5, Soft Top Conversion - my toy, and bairns favourite

drb1709 wrote:

On the two stroke idea, when we first moved over to unleaded petrol, the use of two stroke aided upper cylinder lubrication. Engines that ran hot and weak in fuel in certain cylinders, in line 6 pots and the Jag V12 benefitted in economy, smoothness and dare I say performance,with only a marginal increase if any in exhaust 'smoke'.

Never used it in diesels as diesel itself has lubricant in it.

Dave

As above.. don't add it if you think you'll get performance or better mpg. It's how most think of it, and are clearly then disappointed and make their judgement accordingly.
Those that have a sound mechanical knowledge and an understanding of why the lubricity of current diesel is potentially a problem, can then make a decision on whether to use 2so or not.
HPFP's have been redesigned with teflon internals because of the lack of sulphur in current fuel. They may well meet current regs, but who knows to what extent.
If an owner wants to add some belt and braces lube to the fuel at 200:1, with no proven negative effect, then so be it.

Make an educated decision for yourself. I know mine runs better. Ask a good mechanic ( not a fitter) how he knows thy a carb is setup and running correctly, ask if he knows that twin SU's are balanced, ask how he can tell if an engine is running rich or lean by the sound, or if it is too far advanced.
To some that will be just smoke and mirrors. The engine gurus will know exactly why he knows. 2011 MY D4 HSE
Previously 2001 D2 TD5, 1996 D1 300Tdi, 1985 90 2.2 petrol.
Bikes! KTM, BMW, British, Classics and others.

Sorry, it's the same argument as those who used to claim that a good driver i.e. them of course, was more effective than ABS. Sure, back when ABS first came out and was very basic, maybe so. But today? Nope, sorry but a human can't brake better using a single pedal than a system that brakes each wheel individually.

Modern fuels/engines are designed to account for the chemistry involved. Chucking in an oil designed for something else? Why not just drop in a bit of engine oil? Maybe a bit of three-in-one? If 2SO was as good as claimed, why would fuel manufacturers not just dose forecourt diesel with 2SO and not bother with all the expensive additives? After all, it would cost them pennies and give all of the benefits alleged for the additives and so make them a fortune. Win win for the oil companies.

One see things like this:

Quote:

I have no intention in quoting sources on this one . I came across this information from being a member of the discovery owners club . A german scientist who happend to also belong to the landrover forum wrote an article on the forum reff experiments he was doing with a german university about using two stroke oil as an additive for diesel fuel .

He was of the opinion that two stroke oil added to the diesel fuel will lubricate fuel pumps , act as an upper cylinder lubricant ,clean carbon from pistons , injectors , valves and turbo vanes . He also said that the two stroke oil aided combustion in the diesel engine and most engines would show an increase in M.P.G . also using the oil would cut down exhaust emmissions . He also said that using the oil could encrease the BH.P of most diesel engines .

There was a massive post on the Disco and Freelander Forums started by a "Yamaha fan".
https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic22434.html


I just use BP Ultimate In Spain - 2018 F Pace - Frightened away from the Sports due to crank failures
Gone - A couple of RRS, A couple of Disco's. However thinking of another Sport.

I remember reading through that thread previously. If I remember correctly there is no actual evidence ever presented by the original poster. Just "you may know", "some unnamed person has done something that shows this" etc. Then there is a lot of "I've done this and OMG it's amazing, the car is so much quieter/smoother/more fuel efficient" type posts.

Snake oil. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

RRSTDV8 wrote:

Sorry, it's the same argument as those who used to claim that a good driver i.e. them of course, was more effective than ABS. Sure, back when ABS first came out and was very basic, maybe so. But today? Nope, sorry but a human can't brake better using a single pedal than a system that brakes each wheel individually.

Modern fuels/engines are designed to account for the chemistry involved. Chucking in an oil designed for something else? Why not just drop in a bit of engine oil? Maybe a bit of three-in-one? If 2SO was as good as claimed, why would fuel manufacturers not just dose forecourt diesel with 2SO and not bother with all the expensive additives? After all, it would cost them pennies and give all of the benefits alleged for the additives and so make them a fortune. Win win for the oil companies.

One see things like this:

Quote:

I have no intention in quoting sources on this one . I came across this information from being a member of the discovery owners club . A german scientist who happend to also belong to the landrover forum wrote an article on the forum reff experiments he was doing with a german university about using two stroke oil as an additive for diesel fuel .

He was of the opinion that two stroke oil added to the diesel fuel will lubricate fuel pumps , act as an upper cylinder lubricant ,clean carbon from pistons , injectors , valves and turbo vanes . He also said that the two stroke oil aided combustion in the diesel engine and most engines would show an increase in M.P.G . also using the oil would cut down exhaust emmissions . He also said that using the oil could encrease the BH.P of most diesel engines .

Hmm, no sources quoted. Claims made that basically say that 2SO makes everything better. Actually everything is better. But no sources quoted. How does an oil lubricate turbo vanes? It's added after the compressor, goes through the combustion chamber, comes out through the turbine, lubricates (so isn't burnt yet) but doesn't make emissions worse? So partially or unburnt oil in the exhaust doesn't affect emissions? Wow, useful to know.

So why isn't it added by the oil companies?

Snake oil.

Encouraging people to use 2SO when there is no direct evidence of harm, irrespective of evidence of benefit, is not responsible behaviour. The problem with "no harm is done" is that no one will be looking for harm and might well put down any side effects as normal wear and tear.

The EGRs on my old TDV8 were changed at 170k miles and then only because they had to be removed to do something else, and putting the old ones back in seemed silly. Did those EGRs last so long because of the fuel I used (for a time I used premium diesels only)? Or maybe just because I did 90k miles in 3 years. Who knows? Had I been using 2SO, I might have claimed that it was all down to that but there would be no actual evidence to support it.

At the end of the day, the "it might be good so you may as well do it" is a modern version of Pascal's Wager. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed