Keyless entry and keyless start are seen as "luxury features" these days. No idea why they're "luxury", but I have no doubt that's why LR have them in their luxury 4x4s.

I'd be happy if LR just gave buyers the option to have non-keyless entry/start. It's one option I'd choose to delete. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29786320

Soz, just seen the same link posted earlier 07 TDV8 + BAS map

Last edited by jack.bauer on Mon Oct 27 2014 8:33pm. Edited 1 time in total

BMW were in the same position 2 years ago when my 5 series was stolen. Only took notice one BBC watchdog did an exposé. Next day, lo n behold, they had a press release denying there was a problem but that concerned drivers could come in for a free software fix!

So you deny any issues but overnight you have a fix! We were all born sunday 26th October 2014!

Be assured that JLR are secretly fully aware of this flaw and are working on a fix. 07 TDV8 + BAS map

Well, who'd have thunk it! In about 5 days time, I will take delivery of RRS No2, having watched No1 drive off without me in it a few months back. I have been driving around in a supercharged variant for the past couple of months and put a dirty great steering lock on it each night to deter thieves....and while I am told of software upgrades and that the new 'in control' tracker and security system is better......for the time being, in Central London, I am no longer going to rely on clearly unreliable technology.

Surely after all this publicity JLR will take a step back and place a key back into the equation - keyless entry and push button start fine....but only after key has talked to car on a one-off, ever changing code basis.....those systems worked just fine. These 'modern' all wireless systems are being proven to be seriously flawed. If JLR don't get their act together ASAP, people will stop ordering them....and I suspect 2nd hand values will take a tumble. Come on JLR, stop pretending there isn't a serious problem and act before you image takes a hammering!

And so it begins...  07 TDV8 + BAS map

Yup, that's a real image enhancer! Good if depressing pic. On the one hand, I don't care about the image - I use mine properly, doing about 16k a year and from August through to February, it climbs hills and mountains and traverses bogs and ploughed fields. Give it a pretty good kicking on a decent windy road too. Love it's limo like qualities on the m-ways. However, for strong resale values it needs to appeal to all and sundry and I think this is really going to hurt when the time comes to sell it......the insurance premiums are going to stuff 2nd hand buyers.....think of the depreciation on 1980s/90s hot hatches....the bottom fell out of the market. Oh dear. Anyway, your picture did make me chuckle.....perhaps I should by a bloody great ball and chain?

If anyone looking to vent on sky news... Go for it, don't forget rrsport.co.UK plug! And my name! Mention jack bauer! 07 TDV8 + BAS map

Unless I am mistaken, the code sent from the remote to lock and unlock the car changes at each use using encryption keys built into the car and the key so that intercepting the signal doesn't help a prospective thief because recreating the signal will not work. However, by jamming the signal, a user can walk away, blip the remote and think the car is locked when it is not. It is vital that users check the car is physically locked before walking away. In that way, the car is both physically locked AND logically locked so that any software running in the car knows the car is locked and will respond - or fail to - accordingly.

Of course, you can break into the car by smashing a window which should set off the alarm which may or may not be ignored. If the car is logically locked, and irrespective of whether there is someone physically in the car, the car network should be locked down and should not allow key cloning or much else at all beyond the very limited functions active when the car is locked.

In the reported scenarios, the thieves are not having to dismantle anything or defeat anything. Connecting the key cloning device gives them free access and providing they have an unprogrammed key - I expect there is a thriving black market for these - they can clone a key and they are all set.

Realistically, the only short term solution open to LR is to make software changes which can put road blocks in the way but if the software can be field-updated, that opens a security door wide open. Download a file from the Internet, re-flash the non-volatile memory and you defeat the security. It's important that the core software is put beyond the reach of field update. Mark

SVR in Estoril Blue

jack.bauer wrote:

And so it begins...

Err... You can buy sets of wheel locking nut keys.

Still, any negative publicity like this will do us prospective users a favour by waking up LR from their lethargy. Time and again, it's been shown that the longer manufacturers keep their heads buried in the sand, the more it costs in terms of money and reputation. With more than 1200 cars coming off the lines every day, the situation is getting worse by the day.

At least Porsche did the decent thing when examples of their GT3 caught fire and replaced the engine in all the cars produced, including mine. Mark

SVR in Estoril Blue

What worries me more is that in all articles I have read, it clearly is not just land rover and BMW as well as many others are facing the same problem... So what are the police doing about it?!?

It's not like you can stuff a RRS up your jumper! If they are being shipped out the country.... Our border / dock controls must be shocking! If they are being resprayed with fake plates, our police with their NPR systems are clearly useless.

It is very worrying. I think the police need to be doing more to catch and prosecute theives that have managed to get away with hundreds of thefts. It's clearly not every single low rate theif capable of stealing these cars so must be the same select few.

How can they have no idea where they are going or how? With all the cameras and surveillance in this country?

This is probably not a police priority and the onus lies with the manufacturers  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

They probably put a false pair of plated on it and it disappears without trace, though you'd think right hand drive cars are less attractive. I imagine other manufacturers are affected because of common electronic architectures, say, by Robert Bosch. Nevertheless, the car manufacturer should be able to implement their own security. Mark

SVR in Estoril Blue

The guy on radio 2 last night was recommending steering lock and tracker system to make yours less attractive to

They are apparently shipped abroad in containers or broken for spares most of the time  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

Originally, the InControl System was a single offering incorporating tracker, wi-fi and app functions. The three have now been separated and, as I understand it, the tracker function is now standard.

If it's full Thatcham 6, there should also be a separate fob which means the tracking is activated if the car is moved without the fob on board.

Of course, any car can be stolen if the key can be obtained but the key here is that the car can be used to make its own keys if you have the right gear and that is surely a huge security exposure. Mark

SVR in Estoril Blue

muddywheels wrote:

This is probably not a police priority and the onus lies with the manufacturers

Rubbish!

That's like saying the manufacturers of pistorius gun has the onus on them to stop him killing with it!

The police are there to prevent and solve crime and catch criminals. Manufacturers are there to build desirable products that do as described, in the case of a car that purpose is to get from point A to B. If the product was a 'safe' then the purpose would be to prevent entry, however even a safe can be picked up and taken away or even broken into if the criminal has enough time.

For those saying go back to a physical key, having seen the devices that can be used to open these locks with no force (videos easily found on youtube & devices on eBay) it isn't going to be the solution. If over 300 high end cars have been stolen in London in such a short space of time, unless the thieves are magicians, the police are clearly not doing enough.

No car should leave the country without evidence of ownership or vehicle registration being shown. It may be time consuming but if all reported stolen cars are on the database by their VIN then checking chassis numbers would catch these people.