The Helicopters & Crews performing SAR operation for HM Coastguard have been provided
by private companies for years. Initialy Bristows and then laterly CHC Helicopters. There is no
reason whatsoever to assume that the service provided by Bristows for the new SAR operations
replacing the RAF & RN will be any less effective. I have never heard of anyone complaining about
being rescued by HM Coastguard!! I agree there will be a degree of sadness to see the traditional
military services, that we can all look up to and be proud of, retired.... BUT, that is no reason to
dismiss out of hand the new replacement service. The men & women who will fly these services will
be just as brave, just as selfless and just as skillful as their military predecessors and I am sure they
will very quickly earn the respect and admiration of the public. 2013 Discovery HSE Luxury - 3.0 SDV6 - Santorini Black
2013 Evoque 5 Door Pure Tech SD4 - Orkney Grey with Panoramic Roof (Mrs E's new baby)

GONE - RRS - 3.0 TDV6 HSE - Santorini (2010)
GONE - RRS - 2.7 TDV6 HSE - Java Black (2007)
GONE - Porsche Boxster S - 3.2 - Black

When it comes to SAR Ops ALWAYS go Navy!

Jim

if its in the sky and I pay for it...RAF Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

At the end of the day this like everything else this govt does is about cutting costs not improving services

History has shown we end up spending more and it becomes all about profit not saving lives

If it ain't broke don't try to fix it  Wanted a Series 2 LR since childhood but previously owned MY16 Disco Sport HSE TD4 Auto, MY13 RR Sport Black Edition TDV6 Auto, MY10 RR Sport HSE TDV6 Auto, 2007 Freelander 1 Freestyle TD4 Soft Top, 2009 Freelander 2 GS TD4 Auto, 2007 Freelander 2 GS TD4, 2004 Disco 2 Metropolis Auto, 2002 Disco 2 GS, 2000 Freelander 1 SE TD4 SW

Still hoping for a S2 one day!

BKHK wrote:

When was the last Bristow crash in the North Sea? Stop name calling and admit when you are incorrect.

In the last 20 years there have been 5 or 6 fatal crashes in the north sea, 2 of which were operated by Bristow.
My original post if you had bothered to read it correctly , was meant to highlight that under privatised ownership, the pilots will be flying under CAA regulation, with all the HSE stuff that goes with it. I would rather be rescued by some gung ho RAF/Navy pilot whose only mission is to get me off a mountain/boat or whatever, than some office chap with a clipboard telling the pilot not to go as the weather is too bad.
I know you like to be antagonistic , if you hadn't come at me with both guns blazing then you might have got a more civil response (I didn't call you a W**k, I said you were BEING a W**k)
Cheers
Dave MY10 TDV6 SE (debadged ), Santorini Black, Flappy paddles, Privacy Glass, 20" Stormers, Mudflaps!

Gone: a comprehensive list of imprezas and a Merc ML AMG

Chaps,

ALWAYS remember:-

Fly NAVY, Sail Army and walk sideways !!!

Scrumps Somerset - Where the apples do grow and the cider do flow!
2021 Defender 90 D250 HSE in Tasman with white roof.
24MY D300 AB - Verasine Blue - 😀
19MY SDV6 AB - Byron Blue - Gone
17MY D5 SDV6 HSE - Firenze Red - Gone
16MY SDV6 AB -Aruba Silver - Gone
13.5MY SDV6 "HSE Black" - Baltic Blue - Gone
10MY TDV8 HSE Galway Green - Gone
14MY D4 HSE in Scotia Grey - Gone
05 TD5 D90 CSW in Cairns Blue

RAF rules OK - its the gentleman's service Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

It is worth remembering that Bristows already operate SAR ops in a number of countries including Netherlands, Norway, Trinidad, Russia, Brazil, Australia, Canada, Cyprus and the Dutch Antilles as well as providing SAR training in Trinidad and Algeria. (from their website).

So they do have some track record.

It is very sad that the end of life Sea king airframes appear to have dictated govt. policy and rather than find a suitable new aircraft, they are ending the military's role in SAR. I would have thought that skills of this type would have been worth retaining in the overall UK military capability & there must be an option for Merlin or something similar to be adapted for SAR or if not buy in suitable kit.

The Seaking has been excellent and their crews legendary so Bristows crews will have a tough act to follow. --------------------------------------------------------
RRS TDV8 Black/Black (Gone)
RRS TDV8 Stornaway (Gone)
RR Vogue TDV8 (Gone)
RRS 4.4V8 (Gone)
Defender 110 300tdi (Stolen, much missed)
RR Vogue V8 P38 (Gone)
LR 90 TD (Gone)

The RAF is effectively redundant and they know it. That's why they've spent so much effort trying to prevent the aircraft carriers being built. An expanded Fleet Air Arm is all that is needed these days - stuff on boats for force projection/fleet protection, stuff on land for UK defence. Let the Army move their own guys and gear around (Army Air Corps) using big planes and helicopters plus ground support choppers. Get rid of a whole group of senior/middle rank officers and use the money to pay front line people and pay for kit. You keep the pilots and some of the ground crews, the rest go. Don't forget that some RAF maintenance is already done by civilians anyway.

Think back to the Falklands and, other for a few GR3 Harriers, the RAF had no part in the whole thing. The Black Buck Vulcan mission was only done to remind the world that the RAF existed.

In more recent times, the majority of the RAF's fast toys have been useless. Harriers were used a lot for ground support but the RAF big wigs got rid of them in favour of the Tornado and Typhoon. In Libya, Tornados were flying from the UK to drop a couple of bombs. A carrier could have provided more ordnance in a shorter time with greater flexibility. Both the Tornado and Typhoon were originally designed for a Cold War that ended years ago. The Typhoon is a fabulous aircraft but we don't really neeed it any more - carrier-based aircraft can do what it does both on land and at sea. Harriers, on the other hand, can do lots of useful stuff - even off "through deck cruisers".

Scrap the RAF. And I say that as a RAF Brat - my father served in the RAF for over 28 years. 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

Don't sit on the fence RRSTDV8!

Whilst I think you make some valid points, I don't think scrapping the RAF is viable in the short term. I also don't think it is possible to have such complete faith in the UK's carrier strategy, I believe we'll only have one of the two operational once they are built, with limited number of aircraft & indeed those aircraft will be limited in terms of capability as well. It would therefore not be possible to provide a full time capability as equipment of this nature will spend regular time in re-fit mode etc, so we'd not be able to maintain any long term commitments and indeed might not even have capability available in an emergency situation (e.g. Argies get belligerent again down south).

I agree that chopping the Harrier capability early was a mistake as it was one aircraft which offered a great deal of flexibility, close air support, temporary runways and even being able to operate from maritime assets. However, the RAF’s fast-air capability is still very relevant & continues to offer support for NATO ops in Afghanistan, which will likely become more important over the next 18 months as NATO disengages. Also who knows what threat might come along in the future, potential issues in S.Atlantic, Asia (N.Korea) or even a destabilised Middle Eastern country with modern air capability, so in my humble opinion we need a full range of offensive and defensive capabilities now and for the future.

The argument that often gets trundled out is that we will only enter into battle with our allies, does not stand up to any scrutiny in my humble opinion, just look at the Falklands as an example & the current US administration who are more concerned with developments in Asia & less interested in the so called ‘special relationship’,

As the conflicts Britain has been involved with over the last 20 years prove, air superiority is essential but on its own it is not enough. You could not fight a conflict against an enemy with an air force if we did not have one, but also as insurgency type operations in Afgan, Iraq & even Sierra Leone, have shown, alone having great air assets will not win the battle.

Perhaps one day the RAF’s role might become streamlined to focus just on fast jets and heavy lift, leaving helio ops to the other services and perhaps some of the RAF infrastructure (e.g. RAF Regt., Logistics) could be covered by Army & RN capabilities, but I cannot imagine the UK not having the capability to engage against a modern enemy with jets without us having at least some such capability.

I also still think it would be worthwhile retaining the SAR capability within the realm of the military. --------------------------------------------------------
RRS TDV8 Black/Black (Gone)
RRS TDV8 Stornaway (Gone)
RR Vogue TDV8 (Gone)
RRS 4.4V8 (Gone)
Defender 110 300tdi (Stolen, much missed)
RR Vogue V8 P38 (Gone)
LR 90 TD (Gone)

Cod

In the last 20? I think it was one fatal (2002 blade let go due previous lightning damage G-BJVX) and one non fatal in 1995, ditching due tail rotor lightning strike G TIGK.

I came at you with both guns because you were talking rubbish. SAR allows Captain's discretion over normal CAA rules as it is for the purposes of saving life. There are no statistics to say that military SAR pilots are any more brave than civilian ones.

In a previous life I flew civilian SAR in the S-61N which is the equivalent of the Sea King. I don't think anyone that we as a crew rescued would suggest we did an incomplete job due to CAA rules. The Shetland Isles are not very forgiving in winter. Gone - 2008 Stornoway Grey RRS 2.7 TDV6
Gone - 2009 Buckingham Blue RRS 2.7 TDV6
Gone - 2010 Alaska White RRS 5.0 V8 Aspirated
Gone - 2017 Chawton White RRS 5.0 V8 Supercharged
Current - 2010 Java Black RRS 5.0 V8 Aspirated
Current- 2024 RRS P400 SE Dynamic

Why not go the other way...if it flies - the RAF do it...if it runs, drives and shouts the Army does it if it sales the navy does it.

The army doesnt (like the navy) need an air arm and the RAF doesnt need a troop division.

Ive always been a supporter of the RAF...RAF all the way...genuinely my favourite service. Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

MSE, why do you love the crabs so much?? --------------------------------------------------------
RRS TDV8 Black/Black (Gone)
RRS TDV8 Stornaway (Gone)
RR Vogue TDV8 (Gone)
RRS 4.4V8 (Gone)
Defender 110 300tdi (Stolen, much missed)
RR Vogue V8 P38 (Gone)
LR 90 TD (Gone)

Its the Pilot in me! (Not RAF)

Ive spent some time with them and they are the best bunch and really well trained - gentleman service...who needs boats, grunts and tanks (although where are the tanks in afgan)...i can sort of see Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

Oh well in that case enjoy !

 --------------------------------------------------------
RRS TDV8 Black/Black (Gone)
RRS TDV8 Stornaway (Gone)
RR Vogue TDV8 (Gone)
RRS 4.4V8 (Gone)
Defender 110 300tdi (Stolen, much missed)
RR Vogue V8 P38 (Gone)
LR 90 TD (Gone)