I have rebuilt a few (petrol) engines and have never heard such cr*p. There is no way on this earth that the cylinder bore of a combustion engine can rust unless it is left and not run for a significant period of time - even then it would start (assuming it is not seized with corrosion) and any surface rust would quickly be removed.

They are feeding you rubbish!

Ive not rebuilt that many engines myself (one or two max) but have helped on others and done many other tasks on them.

Everything that ive read from people saying its rubbish i agree with. Unless it had seized in place (but it cant do that when your moving) then just rubbish Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

mse wrote:

Ive not rebuilt that many engines myself (one or two max) but have helped on others and done many other tasks on them.

Everything that ive read from people saying its rubbish i agree with. Unless it had seized in place (but it cant do that when your moving) then just rubbish

Tim, ive sent you a PM
Ady

Visited my very sad looking car at the LR garage and discussed the position at some length with them. The position seems to be as follows :

1. The body is off the chassis now and the cylinder head is off. There is no sign at all of any metal having passed through this way with no visible damage or metal pieces.
2. The "rust" damage on one cylinder turns out to be no more than some brown deposits on the end of the injector. This is thought to be evidence of water contamination of this area as brown deposits look like that left behind by coolant. The brown deposits wipe off very easily indeed.
3. No evidence of any source of these brown deposits, the cylinder head is true and the gasket looks sound with no tell tale signs of water having breached the gasket. And no signs of any cracks in cylinder head or cylinder where water may have come in. And coolant level has never fallen. So I say we ignore this as a "red herring".
4. The passenger side turbo has definitely failed and the fins have broken up (does that feed the drivers side cylinders?). Key question is has any metal from those fins entered the engine. The garage says that they saw metal parts on the inside of the air filter (although that wasn't available to inspect when I was there) which they though meant the metal must have passed from the tubo, through the intercooler then through the air filter and into the engine. But the intercooler has been tested and is still sound. Surely if metal passed through an intercooler it would be gashed ? And the air from the turbo doesn't go through the air filter anyway (does it) - surely it goes from the air filter to the turbo - not the other way.
5. The garage haven't yet dropped the oil out to see if there is any metal in the oil. I was surprised that they hadn't done this already as I would have thought that would be a very easy way to see if metal parts had entered the engine. The turbo shares the same oil supply as the sump - so maybe a failed turbo can contaminate the sump oil - in which case there may be a lot of damage at the bottom of the engine. But can metal actually go down that route ? Inspecting the oil will tell I guess.
6. The garage man worked out as he was talking to me that the way the metal might have got to the inside of the air filter from the recirculation system where gases from inside the sump cycle back to the air filter. I said looking at the air filter itself would tell if the metal had come through the filter (as that would have punched holes in the filter) or arrived straight to the middle of the filter. I personally can't see how metal could travel through the gas recycling route though.
7. I have asked them to discuss the technical and financial position with LR which as yet they hadn't done.

So I have told the garage to drop the oil and thoroughly check it for metal. If there is no metal in the oil, the cylinder and heads show no sign of metal and the intercooler is undamaged - then I say they should reassemble the engine and reinstall it.

Does this sound like the right thing to do ?

By the way - the garage says they will only charge me for a new Turbo (£700) plus 16 hours labour at £65/hr. Looks like a lot more than 16hrs will have been used up here but they are doing the decent thing I guess.

I'll post some photos of what the car looks like - it sure aint pretty ! RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Im desperately thinking through in my head how metal can get to the air filter.

Now im not an expert on the TDV8 (or TDV6 for that matter) engine - but i cant see it. The recirculation systems on the cars ive played with intercepts after the air filter not before it so metal would be after the filter...i suppose it possible at or after failure for metal to find its way the wrong way - but with out knowing the pipe layout i couldnt say.

- have they pressure tested the head - its dead quick to do and would tell you if you had a leak. But i suggest your comments are correct - head fine, clean up and refit (go all out and any new components fitted at the time though!)

Oil check will be the one...for me

Intercooler i would also thoroughly check.

Good luck - looking forward to the pics Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

Pics here - sorry they are a bit pants as Iphone and must have had a mucky lense....



Body and chassis well apart...



Proof that a TDv8 doesn't use a belt ......



Cylinder head, injectors and various other parts all in the wrong place ..... RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

She lives again !

Collected my car today and she looks, drives and sounds beautiful. And the cost was "only" £1,500 to replace the bust Turbo and very thoroughly check that there was no further damage any where else. The garage only charged for the hours that were subsequently proved necessary and LR chipped in as well. And the car feels better now than she did when she was a baby.

I think the garage have learnt quite a bit from this exercise and have proven themselves both to be very decent people and good mechanics (albeit a bit more careful thought at the outset may well have saved a lot of time). And even LR have come out of it well by making a generous contribution to the repair cost as a goodwill gesture to a life long LR owner.

Here's to the next 75,000 miles and another 4 years (fingers crossed)  RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Sounds like a good outcome, glad it's back in one piece  Like this site? Buy some RRSPORT goodies to show your support!

Glad things have been sorted and I would say a big to the forum. 2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
Runner Up - 2009 �Just Doing What It�s Designed To Do� Award


DO NOT CLICK HERE!

Very Annoyed wrote:

Glad things have been sorted and I would say a big to the forum.

Spot on VA. Being able to share our RRS highs and lows on this forum and sanity check thinking when things go wrong is very valuable indeed. Thanks to all those who helped here

Does the MB forum do the same  RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

NO!  2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
Runner Up - 2009 �Just Doing What It�s Designed To Do� Award


DO NOT CLICK HERE!

Who was the garage?