Quote:

If you came up here and tried some of our runs in the forests NJF you would be looking at whole panels coming off the sides, not scratches!

Not for me, then, I'm afraid. As it happens the DISCO3 crowd are chatting about Deafeners at the moment. Some nice cars there.  Every silver lining has a cloud

2007 D3 HSE with winch, RAI, sliders, roof rack, ladder, yellow top, Engel etc for the school run
2010 RRS TDV8 HSE for work

Quote:

"locking differentials" are limited slip differentials that are not to be confused with differential lock!

Then you should trade your RRS in for a Jeep as it appears that that is better suited to doing what you need it to do than your RRS.

BTW the RRS system is not like the BMW X5's....................................... it's the other way round, BMW "stole" the technology from LR for their FFRR equivalent, the X5. When BMW sold LR to Ford they handed Ford the fully production ready FFRR with the same basic system as RRS and Disco3 (ie no TR system). Ford didn't have any development to do at all, FFRR was ready to launch. 2020 Pangea Green 1st Edition D240 New Defender 110 is here and loving it
2018 Melting Silver Mini Countryman PHEV - soon to be replaced
2015MY Corris Grey SDv6 HSE Dynamic, the best car I have ever owned, totally reliable only a cou0le of rattles in 3 years, now no longer in my care
Also in my garage is a 1996 TDi300 Defender 90 County HT made into a fake CSW

BoatMad wrote:

Sure the disco3 has the rear diff as standard , but still relies on TC to limit front wheel slip. LR are saving a few quid thats all. ( and letting markerting convince you otherwise).

I agree with boatmad that a front locking diff is better than none or an ABS driven one. But i cannot understand why TC had problems with snow especially because of the front diff.

Normally the front diff will be useful in extreme uneven surfaces. And as far as I remember from my Jeep days (Cherokee XJ) the front diff was a very nice to have extra for rock crawling but it was never needed in snow conditions.

BTW this a very nice discussion and I'd like to know why LR doesn't have an option for front e-diff. 2009 Range Rover Sport 2.7 TDV6 SE, Alaska White, Almond leather, tinted windows, active rear diff, tow pack, HiICE, full spare: gone and already missed

2004 Fiat Panda 1.2 Climbing 4x4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

Locking differentials do have some disadvantages. Because they do not operate as smoothly as standard differentials, they are often responsible for increased tire wear. Some locking differentials are known for making a clicking or banging noise when locking and unlocking as the vehicle negotiates turns. This is annoying to many drivers. Also, some locking differentials can affect the ability of a vehicle to steer in some situations, especially when the locker is located in the front axle. They are also capable of subjecting the axle shafts to much higher torque loads than would be possible with an open differential because they allow 100% of the available torque to carried by a single axle shaft as opposed to being divided up between the two. Under extreme conditions, this can cause an axle shaft failure.

Except for the added stress on axle shafts, these disadvantages primarily apply to automatic lockers, and can be mitigated, to some degree, by proper maintenance and setup. Tire wear can be minimized by ensuring that the tires are properly sized and inflated. Steering difficulties can be mostly eliminated by selecting modern lockers which are better engineered than earlier versions which were notorious for steering difficulties. Driving habits, vehicle weight, and tire size can also have an effect on the behavior of a locker.

Limited slip differentials are considered a compromise between a standard differential and a locking differential because they operate more smoothly, and they do direct some amount of torque to the wheel with the most traction, but they are not capable of 100% lockup.


See here for more detailed info.

http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=257993

http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/command_trac_2/

The Jeep Wrangler is the only one in the range with a full loccking diff.

Also the way that a Jeep 4x4 system is driven is different from that of a landrover and have applied different mechanices to overcome the differences in how the system deploys power from the engine to the drive wheels.


You seem to be saying the Landrover system is inferior to that of Jeeps, not having much experience of Jeeps I would not know, but the systems are not like for like in first place and both have used different applications all round to provide a very good 4x4 system, which both have their good and bad points.

As for your own experience in the snow maybe your lack of traction may of been down to tyres which are a huge factor regardless of 4x4 system. Over on Disco 3 many disscussions on having the right sort of tyres making a huge difference to the vechicles performance in different situations. What type are you running

I show the magazine this afternoon and although I had no clue what it was written there, I could easily understood the ratings on that test (9 4x4 in heavy snow).

The FFRR on test was the 3.6TDV8 and end up in 5th position behind Audi Q5, Jeep Cherokee, VW Tiguan, and Mercedes GL .

Maybe Angel can help us a little bit.

It was very surprising to me that FFRR lost from Q5, Tiguan and Cherokee. The only reason I can think of is the weight. 2009 Range Rover Sport 2.7 TDV6 SE, Alaska White, Almond leather, tinted windows, active rear diff, tow pack, HiICE, full spare: gone and already missed

2004 Fiat Panda 1.2 Climbing 4x4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

lespes wrote:

Grand cherokees do not have diff locks, they have locking differentials.

"locking differentials" are limited slip differentials that are not to be confused with differential lock!

Angel... 2009 Range Rover Sport 2.7 TDV6 SE, Alaska White, Almond leather, tinted windows, active rear diff, tow pack, HiICE, full spare: gone and already missed

2004 Fiat Panda 1.2 Climbing 4x4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

Quote:

Anyway, the RRS system is far superior to any Jeep, bar the Wrangler Rubicon. In standard form the RRS will run rings around a standard Grand Cherokee. The rear diff lock is a cheap option, cheaper than after-market lockers that other brands use, and the way it works is much better than a traditional, manual diff-lock.

Well I wouldn't know whether the Jeep or RRS has the best setup as far as diffs etc. goes. What I do know is when I started looking for a 4WD - my criteria was (in this order):

1. Something solid + safe to carry my kids in if we were in an accident.
2. Something which looks good, felt luxurious to drive up + down th UK's motorways which is where it will live!
3. On said motorways if the weather turns bad - something which is capable of getting me home.
4. As I live in a semi-rural area - a 4x4 to use on muddy lanes/farm tracks etc.

If I was just looking for a decent 4x4 without the 'extras' to be honest I'd have bought a new Mitsubishi Shogun. Very capable off-roader & a lot of car for the money; but just not a car I'd want to 'live in' at work - despite having roughly £40K spare change left over.

I've seen those Jeeps fold like sardine-cans in crashes - I know which car I'd have my kids strapped in the back of.

As said to begin with though - I still couldn't say which one has the best off-roading credentials..........!!!  '10 Jaguar XKR Coupe 5.0L Supercharged.
Kyanite Blue/Ivory + Piano Black Trim.

Having competed in D1's and D3's (in production class 4x4 events) I'd say that with the optional rear eLocker, the D3 is a better off-roader than the Jeep, so I imagine the RRS would be similar. Without the eLocker, the Jeep's system may be better in some situations (rock climbing, steep mud climbs), but worse in others (sand, cross-slopes). I can't comment on snow, don't get much of it over here

Cheers,

Gordon 2015 RRS SDV6 SE, Santorini Black, GOE 2-way HS rods, Traxide dual battery, 275/55R20 Nitto TerraGraplers

2015 Discovery 4 SDV6 HSE - GOE 3-way HS rods, GOE underbody plates and sliders, 275/65R18 Courgia MT

lespes wrote:

Tim:

With a bottle of vodka sure a Scot could get through in a cheap disco 3 and widen it enough for others to follow

Not yourself of course.

 MY10 3.0 TDV6 HSE, Zermatt Silver, 20" Diamond Turned Alloys, Factory Privacy Glass, Premium Leather, Contrast Stiching, Side Steps, Etc

Gone 2006 '56' 2.7 TDV6 HSE, Zermatt Silver, 20", Side Steps, Brembos, Dynamic Pack, Etc

VW Transporter, 19" Rims, T32 170 BHP, Lowered

lespes wrote:

Locking differentials do have some disadvantages. Because they do not operate as smoothly as standard differentials, they are often responsible for increased tire wear. Some locking differentials are known for making a clicking or banging noise when locking and unlocking as the vehicle negotiates turns. This is annoying to many drivers. Also, some locking differentials can affect the ability of a vehicle to steer in some situations, especially when the locker is located in the front axle. They are also capable of subjecting the axle shafts to much higher torque loads than would be possible with an open differential because they allow 100% of the available torque to carried by a single axle shaft as opposed to being divided up between the two. Under extreme conditions, this can cause an axle shaft failure.

Except for the added stress on axle shafts, these disadvantages primarily apply to automatic lockers, and can be mitigated, to some degree, by proper maintenance and setup. Tire wear can be minimized by ensuring that the tires are properly sized and inflated. Steering difficulties can be mostly eliminated by selecting modern lockers which are better engineered than earlier versions which were notorious for steering difficulties. Driving habits, vehicle weight, and tire size can also have an effect on the behavior of a locker.

Limited slip differentials are considered a compromise between a standard differential and a locking differential because they operate more smoothly, and they do direct some amount of torque to the wheel with the most traction, but they are not capable of 100% lockup.


See here for more detailed info.

http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=257993

http://www.jeep.com/en/4x4/how_systems_work/command_trac_2/

The Jeep Wrangler is the only one in the range with a full loccking diff.

Also the way that a Jeep 4x4 system is driven is different from that of a landrover and have applied different mechanices to overcome the differences in how the system deploys power from the engine to the drive wheels.


You seem to be saying the Landrover system is inferior to that of Jeeps, not having much experience of Jeeps I would not know, but the systems are not like for like in first place and both have used different applications all round to provide a very good 4x4 system, which both have their good and bad points.

As for your own experience in the snow maybe your lack of traction may of been down to tyres which are a huge factor regardless of 4x4 system. Over on Disco 3 many disscussions on having the right sort of tyres making a huge difference to the vechicles performance in different situations. What type are you running