TC,
Interesting evaluation. So at the mo the old bill have got one offence of speeding, which if paid is £60 and 3 points. Going with your idea will add a second offence of Failing to name the driver. Thats got to be worth Min of £120 (means tested) and up to 6 points if found guilty - halfway to being disqualified! You can be sure if it's on video they will play it in Court.
I'm off to the gym in a bit so I'll ask. TDV6 - gone
TDV8 - gone
Audi Q5 3.0 Tdi Sline wef 6/11/10

TC & Josh,

I have in writing that this all the evidence they hold ( having requested more photographs &/or the video ) This request was done as the above 2 photos do not make it clear who was driving? They are clearly an extract from a video ( ref the NR frame numbers )

If I was preparing a defence to go to court with - I am entitled to see all evidence that they hold. ... and having requested this twice and now have it in writing that this is all they hold.... i'm now not sure what these 2 photos really prove? Where is the means for me to calculate that the speed is coorect ( as from a GATSO you have hashed lines to view ) Is there any protocol on how the officers should operate these etc etc

" Inocent until proven Guilty " and from the photos - it certainly isnt clear who is driving. I have requested further video/photo footage to show who was driving... but they have nothing. What more can I do .....

But if the whole process of the recording/summons/evidence etc is wrong, well thats something else? 
" WITH MORE EXTRAS THAN A HOLLYWOOD EPIC "

MDP - have you thought about contacting a solicitor (Blood suckers) ? May be some forum members might be able to suggest one. 2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
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Very annoyed wrote:

MDP - have you thought about contacting a solicitor (Blood suckers) ? May be some forum members might be able to suggest one.

No worries on that front I know lots - play rugby with one - as do plenty of Police - just havn't seen the one I want to talk to yet. 
" WITH MORE EXTRAS THAN A HOLLYWOOD EPIC "

MDP wrote:

Very annoyed wrote:

MDP - have you thought about contacting a solicitor (Blood suckers) ? May be some forum members might be able to suggest one.

No worries on that front I know lots - play rugby with one - as do plenty of Police - just havn't seen the one I want to talk to yet.

A man of your age still playing! I gave up on my 28th birthday, too many hangovers!  2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
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Josh

Have I offended you?

I am only stating the 2 possible defences MDP has...if the police cannot prove who was driving the car then they cannot proceed with a prosecution so they rely on 'Jo Public' to self incriminate himself by signing a document confirming he was driving and in the process admitting to the offence!!!

MDP, insist on the video and eventually they'll give up or withdraw at court
 Chips with everything

turbochip wrote:

Josh

Have I offended you?

I am only stating the 2 possible defences MDP has...if the police cannot prove who was driving the car then they cannot proceed with a prosecution so they rely on 'Jo Public' to self incriminate himself by signing a document confirming he was driving and in the process admitting to the offence!!!

MDP, insist on the video and eventually they'll give up or withdraw at court

This is exactly how I see it TC - THANKS 
" WITH MORE EXTRAS THAN A HOLLYWOOD EPIC "

TC,

No I'm not offended I quite like a good bit of banter, its healthy. I just don't want to see someone get hammered in Court! unnecessarily.He has to name himself or someone else, he has no choice.

For everyones benefit the case is proved on pic 1. In that split second the laser is put on the car it calculates the T over D = speed. The second pic is just to get the reg and no more. They will not provide the tape pre court because of cost and data protection.
Once you enter not guilty you'll be at the mercy of the Court and how big your Means Tested wallet is + costs+extra points+failing to name driver and maybe pervert course of justice(criminal offence= criminal record).+ big Insurance premium. ITS A HELL OF A RISK.
OR
£60 and 3 points, which are wiped clean in 3 years.

If it was me I'd paid ages ago. Good luck. TDV6 - gone
TDV8 - gone
Audi Q5 3.0 Tdi Sline wef 6/11/10

Josh

Who's perverting the course of justice? Defending yourself and 'using' the system against itself does not amount to perversion.

MDP obviously doesnt want to accept the 3 points and the £60 fine so I'm at least trying to help him.

Yes, there is a risk by going to court but if the prosecution refuse or wont provide the evidence that MDP is entitled to then the case cannot proceed!

MDP is entitle to the video and the camera partnership MUST provide it...if they do not then CPS will have no option but to withdraw the case  Chips with everything

No it doesn't but saying you are not the driver and don't know who was could be perverting or saying someone else was driving could also be if they can prove it on the video, which you are not going to see until you have entered your plea.
Its a risk, but if I was a betting man I know who I would put my money on to win.
Sorry folks I've got no more to add. Good luck. TDV6 - gone
TDV8 - gone
Audi Q5 3.0 Tdi Sline wef 6/11/10

MDP should have his lawyer say he was laid up with the flu; there were a bunch of family over and someone took his car to Sainsbury's; he doesn't know who. Case closed because from the letter he received, there is no other visual evidence that displays a proven view of who the driver was. I however would have my lawyer also write to ask if there was any further visual evidence besides the two 'photos'.
Bish '06 RRS S/C Bonatti Grey/Ebony/Cherry with RSE; PTI; Electronic Rear Diff and Sirius Sat Radio.

turbochip wrote:

Yes, there is a risk by going to court but if the prosecution refuse or wont provide the evidence that MDP is entitled to then the case cannot proceed!MDP is entitle to the video and the camera partnership MUST provide it...if they do not then CPS will have no option but to withdraw the case

thebishman wrote:

however would have my lawyer also write to ask if there was any further visual evidence besides the two 'photos'.

Bish, I have written myself demanding to see the rest of the photos and video - as it is clear the photos are selected from a video - so please can I have this to establish without doubt - who was driving the car. They replied again stating these 2 photos are the only evidence they hold.

You do not have to incriminate yourself ( again case law supports ) , at this stage now - I will make one more call to my mate - criminal lawyer befor parting with £60, but more to the point accepting 3 points  
" WITH MORE EXTRAS THAN A HOLLYWOOD EPIC "

Sorry for butting in from half a world away.

Over here the law works differently. First the speeding offence. Its the car thats speeding, not you. But since the car cannot pay the summons, obviously, the driver will have to (assuming the speeding can be proven). The law also says that if the owner was not driving the vehicle at the said time, then he/she MUST name the driver who was. This is for record purposes and also the points.

It is NOT the duty of the police to prove who was driving the vehicle. That's the vehicle owners' problem. Remember, this is a speeding offence - they just need to prove THIS vehicle was speeding .... .

Just imagine: A hundred people witness a vehicle mowing down a pedestrian but nobody could recognise the driver. All they have is vehicle make/model and licence plate number. The police cannot prove the owner was driving the vehicle at that particular time. What next???

Sorry to dampen your spirits MDP. Just my 2p worth. Malaysia Boleh!
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Hmm, it is a sticky one.

I've been watching this thread with interest as it evolves and as I'm sure MDP knows by now, there is no clear formula that you can use to "get away with it". There are certain leverages you can use which may end up with you walking away from it, counting yourself lucky that your risky approach paid off. Alternatively, it could all blow up in your face and end you up with a much bigger fine, more points and courts costs to stump up.

I do have to say I hear what Josh is saying clear as a bell. If I was in MDP's shoes, my own opinion would be that I'd swallow the 3 points and the £60. Why? Well, I'd know the story would come to an end once I get my license back from the safety unit. I'd also know that I currently have a clean license and a single SP30 isn't going to damage my insurance premiums much.

If you do take it to court, MDP - I hope it turns out in your favour, I really do but in the words of Peter Cushing in Star Wars "you're taking an awful risk, Vader"  

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As i said before i took the plunge and tried to contest my dads speeding ticket, asked for the evidence back in dec, and crapped myself when they didn't respond thinking that i may have pushed my dad into getting prosecuted for not providing info on the NIP. Ended up they were rammed over xmas so had a backlog and would respond to our letter shortly and extended the date to Jan 25th. Again nothing was received, and again i thought we were being entrapped into being prosecuted for not providing the info.

Then after another phonecall from my dad they agreed to extend the deadling till 15th Feb and lo and behold the pics arrived, three of them, fixed position camera, and yep my dads car slap bang in the middle of it, will scan them in tmrw and show you guys, but then it was like yeah what now.. who was driving?? could we just say we still don't know who was driving and leave it as that?
The only people on the insurance are myself and my dad, so that leaves both of us who have 3 points already looking at another 3, and sod off am i going to take them now i have the RS4 coming.

So after a few more phonecalls, he caved in last week and sent the NIP back.. he then called them to see if they had got it, and they hadn't, so yesterday we sent another one off.

Even though we are still going to have to take the points and the fine, still we managed to waste their time for three months, and if i have my thinking right, the points are put on your license from the date of offence right? so if you are close to loosing your license and have points coming off in the enar future and get another fresh set, waste their time! it takes them ages to respond, and the risk of getting prosecuted for non reply is minimal as long as you make relevant copies and maybe copy in your solicitor or something?

The pics are still funny, and the guy coming the other way was very shocked to say the least!