The key is clear its about what you can see...which was my point.

You make me recall my trailer test with a box trailer and a mitsubishi...no towing mirrors on that one, but you could see fine.

Personally i would solve the idiots towing on grandfather rights first - if i cant overtake you at 70 in a 70 your going too fast. Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

DRDILL wrote:

It's not your point that will count though, the law is quite clear now and if your box trailer is wider than your Mitsubishi then you need extension mirrors despite what you think you can see, it's the law, and whilst we are on towing it seems not many know legal speed limits whilst towing either!

I think my interpretation is correct and further comment covered the extended by the fixed extended arm mirrors on a defender which are designed so you dont need extension arms...they are already extended and fixed.

Its all about the field of vision you have - if you can clearly see in the red area of the diagram then it isnt illegal

Defender example  Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

What im saying is that if you can see the red area with the car/trailer combination you have then you are definitely ok - thats simple.

Its no different to the defender mirrors...they aren't extensions, but they do enable you to see the red area.

If you cant see the red area then that would be different. The defender extended mirrors are still the same land rover mirrors, but able to see the area  Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

It's nice to know the people on this forum know what mirrors are for at all, driving up the M5 today it seemed most people didn't even know they had mirrors!

DRDILL wrote:

just like you wold be breaking the law if you towed a box trailer with your Mitsubishi that was wider than your tow vehicle with out extended mirrors, why can't you just admit that you didn't know the law on towing and that would conclude this for me.

Read what I said. Not all trailers that are wider than the vehicle block the view to the rear. The wheels stick out wider than the vehicle but the body of the trailer is narrower than the vehicle. So the trailer, as a whole, is wider than the vehicle but the mirrors can give adequate vision to the rear.

That's the thing about legislation - it's written in black and white but applies in shades of grey.

Now, with caravans, the thing is basically one width so there is no issue - it's either wider than the towing vehicle or it isn't.

And as I pointed out - I'm not trying to say that I can get by without additional mirrors. I use them becuase I find them useful.

As for adults using words like "peeps" and "simples"... 2012 SDV6 - it's missing a couple of cylinders
2008 TDV8 - it was a labour of love and is much missed

So now we have all been educated on which mirrors to use when towing... I think its time for a cuppa.

Day at work had...instead of a drink break

I know, people who use simples drive me mad too!

I think this is often the problem with the forum - forum experts and very easy to misunderstand, RRSTDV8 and i seem to have got it but i can see we arent able to explain it...but either way it doesnt matter nothing is going to change here...

Interestingly the amount of tractors whizzing around...they havent noticed they have a trailer, let alone that its wider than the tractor and the mirrors are standard  Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

Quote:

Most of the tractors I see have massive mirrors so won't have blind spots

i think thats what we have been saying from the start...scroll up?

Im not sure you have grasped the concept of the law either if im honest...so its worth leaving it there. I certainly will be no hard feelings

Ive stopped watching this post now to resist the temptation to post.

When did you pass your trailer test by the way? Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery

This made me smile the other day when i was out and about. It made me think of you lot....

Click image to enlarge

They have equivalent MOT's for HGV trailers

Changing licences, removing, adding or increasing requirements - the motorist becomes a soft touch and actually an MOT on a trailer might add little value, that simple common sense and maintenance wouldn't more than make up for. We dont need to regulate everything and size restrictions on driving licences etc, would it really make anything better? Although if you are going to say from X people need Y licence (like happens in flying) then i think it needs to review the huge numbers of older people enjoying excessive dangerous privileges?

Unfortunately I missed out on the old system of "give all the old timers everything", by a few months. but have done C1+E (and B+E first) D1 to drive minibuses, Advanced Driving, Response Driving (for work) - passed them all 1st time, some LANTRA things for off roading to. Having done those, the modern trailer tests don't talk about loading or anything you might otherwise consider standard and helpful knowledge...so it does beg the question, useful maybe... but...

Right lets put this mirror thing to bed, so we can stop needlessly falling out (i hope)...its silly, its just a forum of opinions for opinions...to waste a few moments of life and to have a laugh with like minded friendly individuals - not to argue.

I said:

Quote:

I think its about being able to see around the box rather than a blanket need.

Quote:

The key is clear its about what you can see...which was my point.

Quote:

Its all about the field of vision you have - if you can clearly see in the red area of the diagram then it isnt illegal

Quote:

you can get permanent mirror extensions for a defender

Quote:

As mse has pointed out, you're only breaking the law if you can't see in the areas highlighted in the diagram earlier in the thread. If, when seated normally in the driver's seat, you can see in your mirros everything within those areas then you are not breaking the law by not fitting additional mirrors. The law requires you to be able to see rather than fit mirrors. "You may require extension mirrors" is not the same as "you must fit extension mirrors".

Quote:

Read what I said. Not all trailers that are wider than the vehicle block the view to the rear

Quote:

Towing mirrors
You must have an adequate view of the road behind you. If your caravan or trailer is wider than the rear of the towing vehicle, you may need to fit suitable towing mirrors.

If you tow without proper towing mirrors you can be:

prosecuted by the police
given 3 points on your licence
fined up to £1,000

Available: https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-...-standards - there are other bits of useful advice

So what I/we are saying is: You might need (and it would be right to have) extended mirrors fitted, if the mirrors fitted to your car (modified permanent extensions (tractor or defender say or standard fit on x car) dont provide you the required level of vision (the red area on this diagram http://www.lifesure.co.uk/cms/wp-content/u...24x589.png ).

If the mirrors fitted to the car didnt allow you to see the area in red, you would be breaking the law and that is very bad and generally dangerous. However, if your car is suitably equipped, you are not required by law to have extended mirrors fitted...you are required by law to be able to see and you are able to achieve this through the fitted mirrors. Thats clear in the government advice.

I dont think it really matters or is worth getting worked up over, i dont actually think we are fundamentally saying something different, other than you assertion that when you put a trailer on the back, the law says you must have extended mirrors fitted - which it doesnt.

Anyway after typing - what might be the longest post, ive realised, not only have i wasted my life - bored myself and everyone else...but actually this is only MIRRORs on A CAR!! its hardly world peace.

Finally - i really dont hold a grudge, i hope you wont and i promise martin and others i will NOT post again on this topic - maybe it was just a good old, late night, missunderstanding  Mike

2014 Facelift Discovery