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Nutty Nige

Member Since: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 355

2009 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Stornoway Grey

I have heard that LR are now going to ask for the engine ECU to be checked on major failures such as Turbo, Engine, Transmission etc. If it has been re-mapped the warranty will be cancelled. The faults like distorted manifolds when you drive them hard (and build up extra heat) is one of the give aways at the min. I know to 2 of them now.
The answer is get the standard map flashed back in if you get a problem before you submit the car. You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Wed Apr 23 2008 2:31pm

Vogue

Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: on the hill
Posts: 184

Nige,

doesn't the process of re-flashing leave a footprint on the ECU - even if you are returning it to the standard tune??

Fri Apr 25 2008 9:37am

Nutty Nige

Member Since: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 355

No it shold not. You just have a recrod of when it was last plugged in or up-dated because you are writing the data over the top. It erases the current map before it writes the new one.

If its a good quality brand with a good back up there is no problem. But don't ask me for names as I would not want to cause any upset on here. You pay your money you take your choice.

The simple way to choose is drive the car standard for 2 - 5K until its all nicely bedded in then re-map.

Drive the car for another 1K with the re-map feeling the difference in power torque, smoother gear shifts etc - because the more engine power the smoother it works.
Better Fuel economy etc

Then re-map back to standard Oh dear you notice it then. You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Tue Apr 29 2008 9:16pm

Vogue

Member Since: 31 Jan 2008
Location: on the hill
Posts: 184

Quote:
You just have a recrod of when it was last plugged in or up-dated because you are writing the data over the top

so say a problem developed with the vehicle and you then had the ecu re-flashed with the original map prior to returning the vehicle for warranty work, then LR could if they wished, check the vehicle ecu and this would then show it had just been re-flashed - and un less you could prove this was done by a LR main agent then you could be into a problem with them declining a warranty claim.

Not trying to be difficult or anything, but it seems to me even if a a chip cannot be detected, the fact that an ECU has been re-flashed to revert to the original tune will give the game away and could result in a warranty claim being declined.

In reality then all these claims from chip companies about them being invisible / undetectable is totally irrelevant as LR if they are determined to get to the bottom of a major problem / component failure will either see the chip by interogating the ecu or simply by the fact that the ecu has just been re-flashed.

are my assumptions correct??

please don't misunderstand my motives as I am also looking at having a vehicle done. Its the misleading claims by some chip tuners that I feel are a little naughty and are leading some vehicle owners into unchartered waters which could result in vast bills if a warranty claim is declined due to the vehicle either being chipped or a problem with a re-flash not being undertaken by a main agent.

Wed Apr 30 2008 1:40pm

Nutty Nige

Member Since: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 355

I will send you a pm to explain it to you You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Wed Apr 30 2008 5:05pm

shmoogle

Member Since: 07 Sep 2005
Location: ... and for every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you!
Posts: 24350

Without you implicating anyone Nige, it would be valuable for the forum if you shared your explanation with the rest of us - this is an interesting topic and would benefit from some qualified opinion

2009 Outstanding Contribution Award - Joint Runner Up
2009 'Tech-Head Of The Year' Award - Runner Up

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Thu May 01 2008 10:13am

Nutty Nige

Member Since: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 355

Just din't want to bore you.
It only tells you the last date and time it was plugged in and that you read the engine data. The original map has a Hardware and Software number, the hardware can be the ECU part number - such as NNS 200591 so thats fine but the software is the level that is currently in there and that is what you are modifying but the software number never changes - even with the re-map you have the original SW number. When you re-flash it you first read the data and compare the map file to see if its been done if the customer didn't have it new, then if its standard you write to it - but the flash programmer erases all current data in the map section of the chip/processor - and writes a new file in the same place. On mine for example the SW number I think from memory is SW505540- this is I think the third version and there are probably another 2 now - such as SW506114. On the V8 there were 2 and from about 2 months ago I got a third. The software number stays the same and the check sum figure would only have to have one letter wrong and the vehicle would not even start. I am not aware that there is a flag in there that can tell you the map was changed and returned.

Just to be sure I will ask my boss because he is looking at this ECU at the min as it may be one of our future projects I beleive, but I think he is waiting on some gear to read the proessor. You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Thu May 01 2008 6:31pm

shmoogle

Member Since: 07 Sep 2005
Location: ... and for every sprinkle I find, I shall kill you!
Posts: 24350

Thanks mate - always good to have techie info for those that need that level of detail

2009 Outstanding Contribution Award - Joint Runner Up
2009 'Tech-Head Of The Year' Award - Runner Up

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Fri May 02 2008 8:49am

simonsi

Member Since: 01 Dec 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 259

2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6 HSE Arctic Frost

Vogue wrote:
In reality then all these claims from chip companies about them being invisible / undetectable is totally irrelevant as LR if they are determined to get to the bottom of a major problem / component failure will either see the chip by interogating the ecu or simply by the fact that the ecu has just been re-flashed.

Potentially more common issue is that if the tune is worth the money then any LR tech taking it for a drive will know it has been remapped within 10yds...no computer required.

If he can't tell the difference over a std then the tune wasn't worth the money IMHO....

Cheers

Simon

2007 2.7HSE 20" Wheels
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Fri May 02 2008 11:03am

Nutty Nige

Member Since: 21 Feb 2007
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 355

simonsi wrote:
Vogue wrote:
In reality then all these claims from chip companies about them being invisible / undetectable is totally irrelevant as LR if they are determined to get to the bottom of a major problem / component failure will either see the chip by interogating the ecu or simply by the fact that the ecu has just been re-flashed.

Potentially more common issue is that if the tune is worth the money then any LR tech taking it for a drive will know it has been remapped within 10yds...no computer required.

If he can't tell the difference over a std then the tune wasn't worth the money IMHO....

Thats right but we were discussing the issue of evidence left behind after the standard map has been loaded back in before LR Tech drives it.

I think to be fair we all have valid points here but its not the issue of CAN YOU TELL that is looming on alll re-map people - its the legislation of how long will emission laws let it go on. - Let me explain. In recent visits to places like chrysler HQ in the USA, GM HQ in Germany etc - you get told what is in the pipeline, and lets face it in Europe to follow USA is the norm. They are clamping down big time on emissions in USA like you would not beleive and there are new targets that the government want ny 2009 and if not by 2010 without fail. These targets allow so few emissions that it will not be possible to use a re-map legally. Now how they intend to do it is make a new software type that is encrypted within the ECU that will make a constant measurement of the perameters used to deliver the correct engine driveability programme relevant to engine load as it is now but far more accurately. The way that is under development at the moment is to constantly measure and compare the output data that is being used within a masked processor and to check that it stays within a limit of a higher tolerence. The moment it steps outside you get limp home, reduced power, and an engine warning light or MIL lamp - as you would now with a faulty sensor. You would then get a fixed time period on , For example 10 start ups of the engine to get the fault rectified, then if the fault still exists after this time period your system shuts down completely - until it is rectified. This will not just be cars it applies to all commercials, earth movers, 70 litre CAT engines, the whole lot will have it. So the re-mapping is going to get very hard or even redundent.

It is nice to see how the better reputation people like Tasmod (Rob) have gone into a diversification and expanded and I wish him all the look with his new venture, it looks superb by the pics he posted, and his choice of Dyno is superb. As I always said to the customers in my specialist workshop when the car was in the rollers - and they said to me I know its 400 BHP cause I can feel it - MY ANSWER IS - THAT LITTLE RED DIGITAL READ OUT IS YOU BHP MATE, AND WHEN THAT FIGURE LOCKS, THE BULLS##T STOPS. You don't stop playing because you get old, You get old because you stop playing.

07 TDV6 been and gone. 08 TDV6 been and gone. 08.5 TDV8 in evaluation mode and now gone. BMW 535D M sport Been and gone, Now time for RRS No4 - TDV6 HSE in Stornaway with Ebony - 09 Model 6 months old.
RS Cosworth 4x4 Stage 2 Mint for summer
Audi TT
Astra VXR for the daughter.

Fri May 02 2008 5:31pm

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