A bit boring, but anyone out there in RRS land prepared to sign my petition on the 10 Downing Street website which asks the Government to allow Self Investment Pension Plans to invest in Residential Property.

At present residential property cannot be held in a SIPP. You may recall that Gordon Brown was planning on introducing a change to this rule back in April 2006 but at the last minute changed his mind. At the time the housing market was still pretty "hot" so bringing more demand and more funding into that market may well have been imprudent. However, now the market has cooled down (frozen completely ?) and many sources of funding have dried up, it feels to me that a sensible move would be to change the SIPP rules now.

This would immediately increase the number of buyers of residential property and introduce new funding into the market. I realise that such property will then go into the letting market and the funding will generally come from cash held in banks or equities. As such this change wont help first time buyers, but, it will get capital and property moving again.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PropertySIPP/ RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Last edited by Smarticus on Sat May 31 2008 4:40pm. Edited 1 time in total

Please post a link up to it, so we are signing your petition.

Can you not see it? It's right there in blue at the end of his post! RRS TDV6 Gone but still around
SL55 AMG
760Li Alpina
BMW 535D M Sport
BMW X6 XDrive35D
BMW 320D Coupe M Sport
And A Van For Rex!

WINNER - 2008's Idler Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Comedian Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Funniest Incident

I love boobies i love boobies i love boobies cuz i'm a big kid now! (Come on everybody sing with me you know the words!)

Of course i can see the blue link

But thats just a link to the petitions site. I meant can he post a direct link to his petition so theres no searching the site and getting the wrong one etc...

Oh right sorry i didn't look at far  RRS TDV6 Gone but still around
SL55 AMG
760Li Alpina
BMW 535D M Sport
BMW X6 XDrive35D
BMW 320D Coupe M Sport
And A Van For Rex!

WINNER - 2008's Idler Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Comedian Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Funniest Incident

I love boobies i love boobies i love boobies cuz i'm a big kid now! (Come on everybody sing with me you know the words!)

Afraid he petition still hasn't been listed on the 10 Downing Street site. I set the petition up on Friday afternoon, but what's the betting the civil servant that vets such petitions before allowing them to go live took a POET's day on Friday. Hopefully it will be live early next week and I will post a link then.

In the meantime, the Rejected Petitions can generate a chortle or two. I particularly liked the following petition, which some straight laced Civil Servant felt wasn't suitable for 10 Downing Street :

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/helping-hand/

Which reads as follows:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to nip round this weekend and give me a hand put me new windows in and paint the bog - you really need to meet more members of the public and this would be an ideal oportunity to do so. i'll supply the beer and pizzas just bring yer overalls and pick up a can of expanding foam from B&Q on yer way here.

Submitted by el slobbo RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Smarticus - sounds like you've had a good think about this, so I thought I'd ask if there are significant risks to your plan in that it could keep already untennably (in many people's opinion) high house prices high or push them even higher with a wave (and it would be a wave) of new demand? A further significant increase in house prices leaves the economy further vulnerable to shocks (like the credit crunch) no?

Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed my house price going up with everyone else. But I've started to wonder if it's a false economy. Those places in the world that prevent foreign investors buying in to the local market enjoy much lower house prices (and maybe stability to boot).

I wonder if we need some short sharp pain (i.e. house prices falling) to get the markets going again (and boosting demand). Or we can keep prices high and wait until income multiples catch up - but at the risk of negative equity if you really need to move, tightened consumer spending (mortgages remain high) and a quiet market.

Making money from a rising housing market is not, I wonder, a god given guarantee so I wonder if I'd put my main residence in it. You are probably talking about buy to let then?

One thing I love about the property market is the way in which the media report on it. As if it's one market everywhere, it just clearly isn't. Even Aberdeen's property market, the nation's only oil town, which has enjoyed a great run on the back of high oil prices, is starting to slow down. And I reckon it's on the back of 1st time buyers being priced out. Without them, nothing works, except maybe at the higher end of the market.

That is why I think that allowing residential property into SIPP's (regardless of one's personal lack of portfolio diversification - assuming you own one's main residence) could be a very bad thing indeed (except for avoiding CGT though!). 2022 P440e AB

PA, your points are very well made. On balance I think allowing residential property into SIPP's will slow down the fall in prices rather than cause them to spike up again. My main concern is that the current housing market (particualrly new build) is not just slowing but almost stopping. That isn't good for anyone. I agree that house prices climbed too high due to banks appetite to lend more and more money against them. However the gearing rules in SIPP's mean that the maximum borrowing will be (say) 50% loan to value, so this demand for houses wont be all credit led.

Some variations on a theme are that SIPP's could hold residential property in certain zones, of certain types up to certain prices. A bit like Enterprise Zones for commercial property. This might support shared ownership schemes, or social housing schemes, or simply protect first time buyers from losing out in a volatile market which gives them so much negative equity they are damaged for life.

Welcome debate on this though, as with all economic policy, cause and effect is an art not a science. RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Finally 10 Downing Street has approved the petition and this is the link :

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/PropertySIPP/

Nice to see the Government / Civil Service took a mere 2 weeks to get around to putting the petition up .....  RRS TDv8 HSE Rimini
Disco 4 TDv6 HSE Ipanema
Defender 90, 200tdi CSW

Im with you mate.. i agree with some of the above points, and feel the market is a bit ridiculous, but i'd like this to go ahead purely for selfish business reasons.

They didn't accept my petition to lock up Prius/smart car/G-Wizz owners!  2005 Zambezi TDV6 - Gone but not forgotten
2009 Alaska TDV8 - Gone and much missed.



WINNER - 2009 �Idler Of The Year� Award
Runner Up - 2009 �Just Doing What It�s Designed To Do� Award


DO NOT CLICK HERE!

Very Annoyed wrote:

They didn't accept my petition to lock up Prius/smart car/G-Wizz owners!

Did they not? B 's RRS TDV6 Gone but still around
SL55 AMG
760Li Alpina
BMW 535D M Sport
BMW X6 XDrive35D
BMW 320D Coupe M Sport
And A Van For Rex!

WINNER - 2008's Idler Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Comedian Of The Year
WINNER - 2008's Funniest Incident

I love boobies i love boobies i love boobies cuz i'm a big kid now! (Come on everybody sing with me you know the words!)

Only issue you need to consider is what if you can't sell at age 75? ASPs are available, but what if your pension is 1 property? Commercial property has been available for years yet few have them, the costs are high too. To my mind the gov needs to sort the general populations pensions before it fiddles at the edges. Porsche Cayenne S Diesel 66 Plate